# American Idol 2 - The Finale. 205 or Broadway? \[Spoilers after show airs EDT\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685 "2003-05-16T14:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/61 "2003-05-22T05:32:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*And “kids don’t grow up wanting to be critics”? The hell? And the Matrix comment the other night? Paula’s been hittin’ the pipe a little too hard before shows. \*\* Translation: “You will get bad reviews. Lots of them. Lots and lots. You won’t believe how many.” And so on… 😃 Coming up tomorrow - 120 minutes of “K LO” singing “Over the Rainbow!” - LIVE! ON FOX! ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/62 "2003-05-22T05:41:28Z")
huh. Still doesn’t make any sense. I stand by my position that she be hittin’ the crack pipe pre-show. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/63 "2003-05-22T06:54:13Z")
I’m glad that both Clay and Ruben are recording albums–I just hope I’ll be able to stand the songs on them! See, my problem, being so far out of the demographic and all, is that I like the songs they sing during the competition (the rights to old songs cost less). The songs “written especially for the perfomers” are the weakest songs going (for me at least). So as much as I like the voices, if the songs on the album are all crap, I may have to bail on buying them. Don’t get me wrong, I am not an old fuddy-duddy, there’s lots of good new music out there–but Kelly Clarkson sure isn’t singing it! So if they give Clay and Ruben songs that bad, oh boy, I’ll just have to buy an old U2 album or hope that Julia Fordham puts out a new CD. But I want their voices singing good music, dammit! \. ---
**Author:** ![EhhMon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@EhhMon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EhhMon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/64 "2003-05-22T09:56:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\*Sunza biches… obviously (hopefully) I meant that 1330 votes is NOT half a percent of 24 million. If the division is what Seacrest mentioned, they’d be over 100,000 votes apart. \*\* Either the staff can’t do math, or Seacrest can’t read. 24,000,000 total votes Ruben had 50.28% Clay had 49.72% 50.28% of 24,000,000 is 12,067,200 49.72% of 24,000,000 is 11,932,800 that makes a difference 134,400 votes. As posted in the SurvivorSucks board. ---
**Author:** ![evilhomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/43a26b/32.png) [@evilhomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhomer)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/65 "2003-05-22T12:28:13Z")
Well, I was hoping that Clay would pull it off, but with the votes being that close (even 134,000 isn’t that big a difference out of 24,000,000 votes), I don’t think he needs to feel too bad. Ruben was great too, so I’m glad if Clay lost, it was to him. I don’t think either one will be too hard up for the next little while. After several “reality series” where people I disliked won it all, it’s nice that the top 3 people on American Idol were the ones that should have been there (IMO). I also thought Kelly was terrible last night. All I could think was “you wouldn’t even have made the top 3 this year”. Ruben, Clay and Kim would have beat her. She might even have lost to Josh (although I think she is a better singer than he is). ---
**Author:** ![Morgainelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Morgainelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgainelf)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/66 "2003-05-22T12:40:01Z")
It sounded as though Kelly had blown her voice out. She tried to sing through it, but yeah, she sounded lousy. And YEA RUBEN! Even though it wasn’t a statistical win, and it doesn’t really make a difference because they both got contracts, I’m still happy for him. The Paula/Simon porno was disgusting. Turned my stomach. Yuck. ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/67 "2003-05-22T12:57:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*And “kids don’t grow up wanting to be critics”? The hell? And the Matrix comment the other night? Paula’s been hittin’ the pipe a little too hard before shows. \*\* My interpretation of Paula’s remark was that it was a snipe at Simon. In other words, kids don’t want to grow up and be Simon. They want to grow up to be stars. Like her. (Get it?) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/68 "2003-05-22T15:08:29Z")
First, there’s no accounting for the taste of the American public. And it was a statistical tie, determined by whoever was able to get through and re-vote the most often. But I still don’t get it – especially the judges’ enthusiasm over Ruben. I think in the last few weeks he has slipped badly–his voice has gotten thin and husky, and “pitchy”–he wobbled all over the place on that godawful “flying without wings” song. Clay just kept getting better and better. But Simon locked onto Ruben as his pick on Week One and never waivered. And Kelly was awful. And the other finalists sounded like they hadn’t even sung in the shower since their respective bootings, and barely showed up for rehearsal. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/69 "2003-05-22T15:15:32Z")
Now that it’s over, is there some site somewhere that has a week-by-week breakdown–who was the top vote-getter each week? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/70 "2003-05-22T15:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Said by Simon Cowell_ > > “What you’re trying to do, if you can, is to tell the audience who you want to be in the final. **You’re not getting accurate judging. You’re not**.” Clay was robbed and cheated out of his rightful win. If the judges had **ever** given Ruben **any** of the criticism he **deserved** for **any** of his lackluster (and sometimes downright horrid) performances, we’d have had the Clay vs Kim Locke final 2 that should’ve happened. Ruben flat out did not deserve to win this competition. He isn’t as good a singer as Clay. He isn’t as good a performer as Clay. And he certainly didn’t “earn” it by hard work at his craft over the past several months. He skated through – no, he warbled through – on the manipulation of the judges. It’s shameful. Congratulations, Ruben. Hope you have a nice career. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/71 "2003-05-22T16:19:19Z")
Tell, it Shayna! I would love to hear from an unbiased critic - one without a stake in the outcome–evaluating each of the final 3 on a) voice, b) stage presence and c) marketability, separately. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/72 "2003-05-22T16:28:03Z")
Is that “One Voice” song that they all sang in white from somewhere? It sounds familiar, but I can’t place it. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/73 "2003-05-22T17:43:07Z")
“One Voice” is a Barry Manilow song. From his “One Voice” album. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/74 "2003-05-22T17:58:57Z")
(Shrug) Sorry, **Shayna,** but I disagree. Ruben IS a better singer overall, based on what I’ve been seeing for the last 3-4 months. Clay certainly has a “belt it out” Broadway power to his voice Ruben does not, but he’s also more given to oversinging - he was back to his old tricks with the weird winking/snarling facial expression thing, too - and I just don’t find him as pleasant to listen to. The “Bridge over Troubled Water” performance pretty much summed it up for me; Clay’s ability to hit big notes was as tremendous as ever, but he over-theatricized the song and made it, well, Broadwayish. I thought it sounded silly and didn’t even approach matching the song. He never REALLY got the Broadway out of his voice. It sucks that his natural sound is “Stage musical,” but hey, there it is. I would much prefer to listen to an album of songs by Ruben Studdard. In terms of stage presence, NEITHER singer impresses me - in fact, most of the finalists didn’t know how to use a stage. Kimberley Caldwell and Josh Gracin at least moved around a little and showed some real enthusiasm, so it’s too bad they were karaoke singers at best. That was about it. In terms of marketability, as evidenced by the vote, they’re both marketable. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/75 "2003-05-22T18:05:48Z")
An unnamed network exec is campaigning for an independent tally of the votes. He pointed out that the difference between the two was announced during the show as 13,000 votes, then as 1,300. Today it’s been revealed that the difference was actually 130,000. (I find it hard to believe that a difference of 130,000 votes indicates Clay was “cheated” out of anything.) In an interview after the results were announced, Randy Whatshisname said that Ruben won the judges over from his first performance, and that his ability to stay the same every week was a major factor in their praise. Apparently the music industry relies more heavily on consistency than perceived improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/76 "2003-05-22T18:05:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > (Shrug) Sorry, **Shayna,** but I disagree. Ruben IS a better singer overall, based on what I’ve been seeing for the last 3-4 months. Then you’re tone deaf. (Shrug) Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/77 "2003-05-22T18:23:52Z")
C’mon, **Shayna**. That’s a bit harsh. For all you know, **RickJay** could be a professional music critic or a record producer. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/78 "2003-05-22T18:43:44Z")
**Shayna** : Can you say ‘Sour Grapes’ :rolleyes: Jeez, someone expresses an opinion and you call him tone deaf. Be glad this ain’t the pit. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/79 "2003-05-22T18:45:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Clay certainly has a “belt it out” Broadway power to his voice Ruben does not, but he’s also more given to oversinging Definetly!! Clay can hit the high note great, but he oversings EVERYTHING! There hasn’t been a single song where hasn’t oversung it. Not a one. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685/80 "2003-05-22T19:03:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Clay was robbed and cheated out of his rightful win. You’re wrong. Thanks for playing. Clay is a great singer, but he overpronounces, over theatricizes, and oversings everything. He’ll be great in musicals, but as a nuanced singer, he ain’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-the-finale-205-or-broadway-spoilers-after-show-airs-edt/175685.md?page=5)