# American Idol 3/30 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 31, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454 "2004-03-31T02:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/81 "2004-04-01T23:10:20Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Having heard so much about how successful Simon is, I’d be curious what acts he has signed… the Spice Girls, I think… but who else? According to [allmusic.com](http://allmusic.com/), he has worked with (though not necessarily “signed”): 5ive, Steve Mac, Westlife, Andreas Carlsson, Matt Howe, Daniel Pursey, Chris Laws, Richard Stannard, Sean Conlon, Julian Gallagher, Per Magnusson, Esbjörn Öhrwall, Max Martin, Cutfather, Wayne Hector, Mats Berntoft, Bernard Löhr, Matthew Sime, Anders Von Hofsten & Sonia. Doesn’t strike me as someone who has his finger on the pulse of _my_ music taste, but then, who ever accused me of having taste in music anyway? Last night’s bottom 3 was a travesty. But as I said in my previous post, I knew they’d be booting Amy because so many people are stupidly voting for crappy no-talents just because they’re “cute,” forgetting that the whole point of this show is that we’re **rewarding someone with a million dollar recording contract**. And that means the rest of us are going to have to be assaulted by the sound of them for at least the next year, maybe longer. Stop it, people. Just Stop It. Please. And allow someone who’s actually, I don’t know, _deserving_ of it to win. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/82 "2004-04-02T00:47:19Z")
**All Elton John songs** > [@](#): > > [From the Honolulu Advertiser](http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Apr/01/il/il11a.html) > > The question now is whether Stevens, the crooner, can find something that fits his persona in next week’s all-Elton John songbook. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/83 "2004-04-02T01:09:43Z")
I think the Honolulu newspaper is wrong… next wing is Big Band according to the TWoP boards. They seem to have some inside information… I don’t know how they know what next week’s theme is, but they’re never wrong. Apparently they were told to select Elton John songs, then had the genre changed on them at the last minute, possibly because Elton as a guest fell through. If it is Elton John, I don’t see why John would have any trouble. He did OK with Billy Joel. “Your Song,” would be a good song for him, but he’d get away with “Blue Eyes,” or “Daniel.” I wouldn’t want to hear JPL mumble his way through “Tiny Dancer” again. BTW, TWoP boards also have rumors that John Stevens wants off the show. It’s completely unverified. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/84 "2004-04-02T01:14:43Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Stop it, people. Just Stop It. Well, I don’t quite get your attitude to be honest. This IS a popularity contest. The children can vote for the person they like best. Overall, it’s good clean fun and if little girls like voting for cute John, I don’t begrudge them for it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/85 "2004-04-02T01:32:51Z")
I kind of hope there _is_ an Elton John week. I’ve though from season one that this would be a good theme and that Elton would be a good guest judge. I think John S. could do well with “Don’t Let the Sun Go Down On Me.” It’s pretty laid back. JPL should definitely stay away from “Tiny Dancer” (that’s more Fantasia’s style). A better one for Penboy would be “Crocodile Rock.” I think LaToya has the chops for “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road” and George could do a great rendition of “Your Song” or maybe “Levon.” ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/86 "2004-04-02T02:01:15Z")
> [@tsarina](#): > > I’m surprised John Stevens wasn’t even in the bottom three. I think, though, that he’d really like to go home at this point. Every time he’s on camera he makes me uncomfortable, due to his complete lack of personality and the way he interacts with the other contestants (ie, not at all). I think he auditioned as a lark, got farther than he ever intended to, and is just sick of the whole deal by now. I think you’re right. I’m almost sorry now that I did power-vote for him, because I think I wasn’t doing him a favor. He really **is** too young. Not so much on paper, because Diana is also sixteen, but she’s a pageant veteran; she’s used to this kind of pressure. What’s John done before this? I think he was in a school play [crickets chirping]. I wouldn’t be surprised if he does voluntarily withdraw. And I wouldn’t fault him if he does. I **do** think there’s a place for him in the music industry, but not now. When he’s twenty-one, **at least**. I would like to hear him sing some more, but not necessarily in this contest. And definitely not at the expense of his mental health. What I fear now is that if he doesn’t leave soon, either of his own accord or by placing last, he’ll just have a meltdown. Which would be ruinous. Then, instead of being remembered as, “Oh, yeah, the kid from American Idol!” he’d be, “Oh, here comes the prima donna! Is he gonna cwy? Does he need a blankie?” Let him step down, or get voted out, and leave a good impression. (Also, someone on Television Without Pity said, “He probably just wants to get home before prom, because he _knows_ he’s gonna get some!”) ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/87 "2004-04-02T02:14:52Z")
JPL is a Beatles fan, so maybe he should sing “Empty Garden.” That’s my favorite song by Elton John. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/88 "2004-04-02T02:16:33Z")
Dang it, I knew there was someone I wanted to reply to directly! > [@Algernon](#): > > **Manifesto Voters.** These are the people voting to make a statement, knowing full well their candidate has zero chance of winning. This is akin to people who voted for Nader in the 2000 Presidential election. (People! – there are unintended consequences!) People who voted for John Redhead fall into this category. Voting for him just because he’s different. Hi, I’m Rilchiam and I am a manifesto voter. I like JS’s style and I think he’s good at it. I’d like to hear more from him, and more from singers in that genre. And I know full well that he has no chance of winning this _contest_, but I don’t think comparing him to Nader is a perfect analogy. This is not an election, where only one person can win, and the loser(s) go back to obscurity. Clay and Kimberly didn’t win last year, but they still have recording contracts. John won’t win, and is still a few years away from the possibility of a recording contract, but that doesn’t mean that he’s not having some influence. I posted this in the thread about week 1: > [@](#): > > I have a feeling that this show is going to have, or is already having, an effect on what the listening public looks for in a singing idol. All through the first two contests, and this one, the judges, and critics in the media, have consistently been saying stuff to the effect of “Yeah, so-and-so has a unique/different/arty/creative/interesting style, but that’s not what the public wants.” Maybe not, though. Maybe it’s just a matter of, people in general are passive, and if all that gets on the radio is boy bands and Brittina clones, that’s what they’ll listen to. But given a choice, they’ll find that they do want to hear something different. So JS is doing old-school singing, and people are liking it. He’s not in a position to benefit from that right now, but he is opening people’s minds to the idea that there’s more to pop music than five guys singing “harmony”. (Word to N\*Sync: It’s not “harmony” if you’re all singing the melody.) Different is good. The Beatles were different (no, I am **not** placing JS on the same scale as the Beatles!), and look how much influence they had. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/89 "2004-04-02T02:29:02Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Well, I don’t quite get your attitude to be honest. This IS a popularity contest. The children can vote for the person they like best. Overall, it’s good clean fun and if little girls like voting for cute John, I don’t begrudge them for it. I notice you left off the “Please,” which makes it a request, not an “attitude.” And no, this is not a “popularity contest.” It wasn’t designed for that at all. It’s a talent competition, the reward for which is a million dollar recording contract. And none of the previous winners (or even 2nd or 3rd placers) were voted to the top strictly because they were popular. On the contrary – they were popular because they were the most _talented_. It’s only _becoming_ a popularity contest because the voters are turning it into one this year, which is, quite frankly, making the show almost unbearably unwatchable. I don’t blame the audence entirely, though, seeing as how it was those idiot judges who put some of these no-talent-hacks in the top 32 in the first place. I find it hard to believe that out of 90,000 applicants, PenBoi, Camille and Teen Martin are among the best that they could find. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/90 "2004-04-02T02:29:11Z")
I agree the bottom 3 was all wrong. Amy wasn’t really a contender and should have gone in the next few weeks but there were 3 performers worse than her this week and none of them were in the bottom 3 with her. Jennifer does not have the fans. I don’t know what it is, the scary faces or the memory of that horrible pink dress but she is at least a better singer than Camille, Jon, John and Amy. I noticed on the American Idol AOL site that Jennifer came in last in the poll for who should win. She may not last long but I sure hope she can outlast the afore-mentioned trio. I like John S. I liked that he was unique, however I don’t believe he should be in the Top 12. He’s not ready and he’s really not right for this competition. Frankly, even though Jasmine and Diana have good voices, I really think the cut off age should be 18. I don’t think it’s right to take a kid still in high school and put them through all that and the pressures that go along with it. I was really pissed that they constantly kept putting the camera on John after LaToya got sent to the bottom 3 and then even after Amy was eliminated. Were they trying to tell us they thought he should have been there and let’s see if he looks guilty? I know they’ve done this sort of thing before but it seems like they did it even more than usual. As for the voting. I just haven’t been able to get myself interested in it and I’ve never been able to get through more than a couple of times in the past. I guess I’ll start voting a few times for LaToya but I think people will be shocked enough about this week to start voting for her again. But as for other people voting on sympathy or cuteness there’s not much I can do to counter that, never underestimate the power of stupidity in large groups (or something like that). ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/91 "2004-04-02T03:26:41Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I notice you left off the “Please,” which makes it a request, not an “attitude.” And no, this is not a “popularity contest.” I didn’t leave out the word “please” to intentionally misrepresent your words. I just don’t take the show too seriously. No, it ain’t fair. The best singers don’t win. The best singers probably don’t even make the finals. But the way the show is set up for voting, it very much IS a popularity contest. Nobody cares who the best singer is, they want to know who will sell music to fans. LaToya seems like a nice gal and she is the best singer on the show, but if she doesn’t have the fan base, she’s not American Idol potential. If JS can get the girls using speed dial, he already is a pop idol. I agree that the judges are to blame if inferior singers pass through to the finals. I also agree that 16 is too young, at least to compete with 24 year olds. They should either make the minimum age 18 or have an only Teen Idol show with a format that is less tortuous to the contestants. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/92 "2004-04-02T07:26:04Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Well, what makes a person an American Idol but a devoted fan base? If people won’t bother to pick up a phone and dial a number for LaToya, what makes you think they’ll drive to Target and buy her CD? This is exactly the method I use to select who to vote for each week. If each performance were released as a cd-single, which one would I be most likely to buy? I couldn’t care less how well they command the stage, or play to the camera, or what they look like. None of that stuff has any effect on what their cd sounds like when I pop it in on my way to work. As we get deeper into the competition, I switch the hypothetical to whose cd would I buy if they each released a cd containing every performance so far. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/93 "2004-04-02T08:17:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I think people don’t worry about LaToya, they spend their votes trying to “save” someone else. Which is what I’ve been doing quite a bit. Whenever I voted, I put in all of my votes for Jennifer because I like her and she IS the most vulnerable. I want her to be around for as long as possible. But, now, I’ll still be voting for her, but throwing a few votes a Latoya. Amy WAS robbed though. I do agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/94 "2004-04-02T13:55:45Z")
> [@Rilchliam](#): > > Hi, I’m Rilchiam and I am a manifesto voter. I like JS’s style and I think he’s good at it. I’d like to hear more from him, and more from singers in that genre. And I know full well that he has no chance of winning this contest, but I don’t think comparing him to Nader is a perfect analogy. … So JS is doing old-school singing, and people are liking it. … Different is good. I agree with everything you said, _except_ the phrase “he’s good at it”. Frankly, I don’t think he’s that good. Yes he’s different and I’m all for diversity in style and appearance in this competition. But in the end this is supposed to be a _talent_ competition, and he doesn’t have enough of it. > [@mnemosyne](#): > > Simon Cowell is the judge. Simon Fuller is the co-creator. Not the same person at all (but a lot of people seem to have this misconception). I tried to research this and came up with conflicting results. Some sources credit Fuller only and others credit both Cowell and Fuller. Here’s one. “[AMERICAN IDOL creators SIMON COWELL and SIMON FULLER](http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/COWELL.%20MY%20ROCKY%20RELATIONSHIP%20WITH%20SIMON%20FULLER) have a successful but temperamental business partnership - because they’re so alike.” There a couple of lawsuits out there too where both Cowell and Fuller are named as defendents. You may be right **mnemosyne** , but I still have a sliver of doubt . ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/95 "2004-04-03T16:19:31Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > I think the Honolulu newspaper is wrong… next wing is Big Band according to the TWoP boards. They seem to have some inside information… I don’t know how they know what next week’s theme is, but they’re never wrong. Apparently they were told to select Elton John songs, then had the genre changed on them at the last minute, possibly because Elton as a guest fell through. From the Official American Idol website at [idolonfox.com](http://www.idolonfox.com/home.htm): > [@](#): > > **TUESDAY - THE MUSIC OF ELTON JOHN!** > > A new theme each week. A new song to learn. A new audience to perform in front of. Competing on American Idol doesn’t get any easier, but with each passing week it gets more important. Tuesday night’s all right for fightin’ with the song book of ELTON JOHN. Who will deliver a knockout performance this week? Who will struggle? And who will connect with the fans and get their votes? Find out Tuesday at 8/7c on FOX! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454/96 "2004-04-03T16:35:05Z")
I’d rather see Bernie Taupin as the judge than Elton. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-3-30/237454.md?page=4)