# American Idol – 5/6/03 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 6, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410 "2003-05-06T15:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/61 "2003-05-07T19:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMark \* > > \*\*And as there is no prize money per se being awarded, there ain’t no laws against doing it. \*\* This is so bloody stupid that it, alone, renders the entirety of your post ingorable. Besides which, voting more than once for a contestant **IS NOT CHEATING**. Have I warped into another universe or are we still at _The Straight Dope_? Un-Freaking-believable! ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/62 "2003-05-07T19:51:03Z")
**Elvis** , note the definition in the law you provided: “For the purposes of this section– (1) The term ``contest’’ means any contest broadcast by a radio station in connection with which any money or any other thing of value is offered as a prize or prizes to be paid or presented by the program sponsor or by any other person or persons, as announced in the course of the broadcast.” Unless I am mistaken, there is no $$$ awarded. Granted, there is prestige and some tours planned (even for the “losers”), but there is no $$$ check awarded to the winner. And **Shayna** , in most real elections, voting more than once really is cheating, and kinda considered a no-no. However, when voting in bogus, for-entertainment-purposes only, ratings scams - nobody cares if you vote for Josh sixty millions times 'cause it don’t mean sqaut anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/63 "2003-05-07T19:53:53Z")
Well, the whole purpose of achieving “the straight dope” implies a certain amount of questioning and cynicism, rather than taking things at face value. ---
**Author:** ![KinSaba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@KinSaba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KinSaba)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/64 "2003-05-07T19:56:23Z")
Doesn’t the winner get a recording contract? Isn’t that $$$? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/65 "2003-05-07T20:03:43Z")
“Money _or any other thing of value_”, **DMark**. If you want to establish a career in music, the exposure offered by the TV show is most certainly of value. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/66 "2003-05-07T20:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KinSaba \* > \*\*Doesn’t the winner get a recording contract? > Isn’t that $$$? \*\* I’ve dealt only a little with record contracts, but in reality - no, they are not worth much unless your record actually SELLS. You do not get upfront cash. Plus, as a performer, you even wind up paying all of those upfront costs of recording back to the label. And with the music business today, the real money is with tours more than record sales. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/67 "2003-05-07T20:28:57Z")
They don’t just get “a” recording contract, **KinSaba** , they get a **Million Dollar** recording contract. > [@](#): > > Who wants to be a millionaire? Well, wrong reality show, but right amount of money, as 20-year-old Kelly Clarkson nabbed herself a million-dollar recording contract by becoming the first American Idol Wednesday night. > > [source](http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,10483,00.html?fdfour2) Not to mention that even if they don’t win the whole kit and kaboodle, all of the 12 finalists go on tour, which they’re paid for, and they recorded an album for which they’ve also been paid… > [@](#): > > Even being a top 12 finalist assures Aiken of six figures in payments from his work on the “American Idol” compilation album that was released Tuesday, the show’s producers say. > > [from here](http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/entertainment/special_packages/clay_aiken/5757252.htm) But of course we can’t rely on any quotes from the program’s producers, as it’s apparently in their best interest to lie. And **Sauron** , questioning and cynicism is, again, entirely different than making accusations – even speculative – of illegal activity. But you knew that already, so I’m just preaching to the choir, right? ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/68 "2003-05-07T20:33:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > \*\*“Money _or any other thing of value_”, **DMark**. If you want to establish a career in music, the exposure offered by the TV show is most certainly of value. \*\* Furthering the point that a case could be made that every person who ever appeared on that show was a “winner” - and to a certain extent, they were. They can trumpet being on that show for many years to come - and I am sure they will. But back to the basics - no money or other thing of value is really given to the final winner, other than a pat on the back, the dubious unseen record contract, and the exposure of showing up on the Today show then next morning. This is not “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?” where big bucks is handed to the winner and cheating would be fraud. American Idol is about winning glory and your 15 minutes of fame on a variety show. That, and a $1.50, will get you a bus ride. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/69 "2003-05-07T20:39:46Z")
In the first place, **Shayna** , I defy you to show me where I accused anyone of doing anything illegal. Let’s say, for example, that Trenyce was the lowest vote-getter last week. And let’s say that Ruben was the top vote-getter. Now, the producers know that Trenyce is gone, regardless. However, by artificially juggling the vote totals, they inject more drama into the equation. “Ruben got 15 million votes, but we want to increase our share next week, so let’s tell America he was in the bottom two. That’ll shock folks, and get more people watching and voting next week.” So who’s harmed? Trenyce is still gone. Ruben is still a contestant. And they’ve done something to help increase the drama. Is this illegal? I seriously doubt it. They’re not rigging the contest at all – just making a ploy for bigger ratings. Secondly, I will point out to you that the producers of American Idol freely admit they will ignore some votes if they believe they were the result of “power dialing.” They don’t define exactly what they mean by this, instead saying something about using “technological means” to increase vote totals. So they’re free to manipulate the votes any way they want, as long as they can show anyone who thinks to ask about it the proof of the “power dialing” gambit. On this Web site, we tend to look for evidence and proof of things, rather than just spouting off at the mouth. But you knew that already, so I’m just preaching to the choir, right? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/70 "2003-05-07T20:41:04Z")
:rolleyes: I’m so done with this stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/71 "2003-05-07T20:41:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > \*\*I’m hardly naive (and I find that extraordinarily insulting!). \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > **This is so bloody stupid that it, alone, renders the entirety of your post ingorable.** Nice juxtaposition, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Realhoops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Realhoops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Realhoops)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/72 "2003-05-07T20:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jurhael \* > \*\*Realhoops: > > “Why were most of your votes for Kim if you felt she was the worst performer this week? In fact, you clearly said that you thought Ruben was the best of the night, both when critiquing the songs and when ranking performers, but said you didn’t vote for him because the line was busy.” > > I did actually manage to get some votes for him, but since the line was so busy, I just figured he should be fine. That went for Clay too(I got a couple votes in for him too though). > “If Kim was the worst performer of the night, why did you feel compelled to cast most of your votes for her?” > > Because overall she IS better than Josh. Also, when I found that her line was the least busy(in my area) there was a part of me that really couldn’t stand seeing Josh beat Kim, despite my voting for him too. So, she ended up with most of my votes. \*\* I freely confess that I watch this show but have never actually picked the phone up to vote for anyone. I guess I can’t really complain about who gets voted to continue and who gets sent home. But it seems bizarre to me that people actually vote for every single contestant. That seems to be against the whole point of allowing people to vote for the performer or performers they want to see come back. Wouldn’t it just be easier to vote once (or five times) for the performer you want to see come back than to vote for everybody but “more” for the people you think should win? I’m just trying to understand why people who do vote do so in the manner they do. It’s all so confusing to me. Anyway, I can understand you saying you voted for Kim because she’s been better overall and shouldn’t get the boot for one bad night… but why did you bother to vote for Josh then? Oh, and thanks for taking my questions in the spirit they were intended and not as some sort of bashing. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/73 "2003-05-07T21:05:25Z")
Uhm, in what way, **Dewey**? Someone insults me personally by calling me naive and I call someone else’s **assertion** stupid (which it IS, based on factual evidence that outright refutes it – for crying out loud, it’s a **contest** to win a **million dollar** recording contract and he says there’s no prize money being awarded. It doesn’t get much more stupid than that!) and that juxtaposes badly, how, exactly? Good Lord! That’s it. I was done arguing the idiocy of vote-fixing prior to this reply and now I’m done defending myself against personal attacks. Anyone wishing to discuss the show itself, the contestants, the judges, the talent, etc., I’ll be happy to continue the discussion after tonight’s reveal show. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/74 "2003-05-07T21:30:47Z")
**Shayna** , he might have been pointing out the fact that you said the person’s post was “ingorable.” I didn’t notice anybody trying to gore it in the first place. I have apologized to you once in this thread already. I hardly think my theory regarding the “voting” is idiotic. If you don’t think such manipulation is possible … well, the less said, the better. ---
**Author:** ![Breezy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@Breezy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Breezy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/75 "2003-05-07T22:38:07Z")
Oh for Pete’s Sake! Leave Shayna alone! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/76 "2003-05-08T00:49:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\ ***Shayna** , he might have been pointing out the fact that you said the person’s post was “ingorable.” I didn’t notice anybody trying to gore it in the first place. \*\* FTR, I wasn’t referring to that ('tho that is kind of funny); I was referring to her being “extraordinarily insulted” at being called “naive” and then one post later turning around to insult a fellow poster. Yeah, yeah, you were insulting his argument, not him personally. Whooptie do. It’s hardly a meaningful difference given the context – **Sauron** was clearly saying your post exhibited naivete. If you’re going to dish insults out, you really ought to have a thick enough skin to take some of your own. (Also FTR: I have no problem with calling an argument “stupid;” I’ve done it myself on more than one occasion. I just don’t turn around and whine when someone throws a sharp rhetorical elbow my way.) ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/77 "2003-05-08T00:59:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grace \* > \*\*That’s a good sign that he will be voted off tomorrow. The last few people voted off were done after their best performances. \*\* Woooo Snarky Hooooooo!!! BTW, I’m starting to really like Ryan. Boy, there was no dragging out of the reveal tonight. “Josh, you’re out!” And boy, he sounded really happy to say it too. _does the happy dance_ ---
**Author:** ![okielady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/fbc32d/32.png) [@okielady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/okielady)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/78 "2003-05-08T01:17:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grace \* > **Boy, there was no dragging out of the reveal tonight. “Josh, you’re out!” And boy, he sounded really happy to say it too.** I noticed that myself. I just assumed they were running low on time, but I wasn’t anywhere near a clock so I couldn’t tell for certain. Usually when they run low on time, they simply cut the final song out and keep the “suspense” element. So _shrug_ who knows? I think Josh was relieved to be gone anyway. Did you notice his reaction when they called him to be in the bottom 2? He knew he should have been there last week instead of Ruben. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/79 "2003-05-08T01:20:39Z")
See? All is well! 😃 Realhoops: I actually don’t vote for every single contestant. I try to not split votes too much anymore because I realized how much of a mistake that was. So since Rickey was eliminated, I simply voted for my favorite the most while voting a little for one (or two) of the other contestants. “but why did you bother to vote for Josh then?” Like I said, I thought he was worth a few of my votes this week. I also liked him from the very beginning along with K.LO. However, I agreed with Simon this week. See, if Josh WERE voted off last week, then ALL of my votes would have gone to Trenyce. Hope that helps! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410/80 "2003-05-08T01:39:36Z")
Josh is out. Not a bummer. I still don’t see what the kids see in him. Looks like an ordinary pudgy adult to me. Heck, I could be the next American Idol! And regarding the vote-fixing: I certainly wouldn’t put anything past 'em. **Shayna** and I definitely see this differently: Shayna: No way they’d cheat, remember the $64,000.00 Question scandal? Slacker: Of course they’d cheat, remember the $64,000.00 Question scandal? Next week: If Kimberly doesn’t do a hell of a lot better - she’s a goner. Heck, she’s probably a goner anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-5-6-03/173410.md?page=5)