# American Idol Feb. 20-22 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988 "2007-02-20T17:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/441 "2007-02-25T16:23:21Z")
I agree that the photos at the WWII Memorial are incredibly disrespectful and disgusting. However, given her horrible singing, I can’t believe she’ll be around three weeks from now, so I’m not too worried about it. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/442 "2007-02-25T16:46:09Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Yes, I’m fully qualified to express an opinion in Cafe Society at American Idol. What are \*your \* qualifications? [/QUOTE] Again, I wasn’t being snarky, as I said in my post. I was asking out of genuine curiosity. I’m curious about your background because I find it interesting that you so often have a completely opposite take on every performance than most everyone else here and on the show. I’d like to know from what experiences those opinions derive from. Of course, if you want to be all defensive and blow me off in the most jerkish way possible, I suppose that’s your perogative. It’s certainly within character. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/443 "2007-02-25T17:03:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] I thought an author could also invoke ‘moral rights’ to prevent unethical uses of his material. For instance, Carly Simon could stop the KKK from using ‘anticipation’ as the theme song for a lynching. I don’t know how far that extends, and I imagine it’s a judgement call. Or I could be completely off base. [/QUOTE] I’m going by my memory of All You Need to Know About the Music Business, by Daniel Passman. Poking around the copyright office web page, I can’t find a reference to anything about morals in relation to recordings. It does seem, however, that if you don’t want someone recording your song, you can refuse to accept the mechanical license fee and refuse to negotiate any other royalites, thus preventing them from legally recording and distributing the work. I assume that mechanical fees come into play with AI because the show is recorded, broadcast, released on DVD, etc., but IINAEL. I am not familiar with the incident to which you refer. The KKK wanted to record “Anticipation”? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/444 "2007-02-25T18:21:00Z")
I was using that as a hypothetical. Canadian copyright law certainly has a moral rights clause. From [here](http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_gd_protect-e.html#12): > [@](#): > > **Moral rights** > > Even if you sell your copyright to someone else, you still retain what are called “moral rights.” This means that no one, including the person who owns the copyright, is allowed to distort, mutilate or otherwise modify your work in a way that is prejudicial to your honour or reputation. Your name must also be associated with the work as its author, if reasonable in the circumstances. In addition, your work may not be used in association with a product, service, cause or institution in a way that is prejudicial to your honour or reputation without your permission. > > Following are some situations which may infringe the author’s moral rights. > > Example 1: You’ve sold the copyright of a song to a certain publisher who converts your music into a commercial jingle without your permission. > > Example 2: You’ve sold the copyright for your novel to a publisher who decides to give it a happy ending, instead of the tragedy you wrote. > > You cannot sell or transfer your moral rights to anyone else, but you can waive them when you sell or transfer your copyright at a later date. A contract of sale or transfer may include a waiver clause. Moral rights exist for the same length of time as copyright, that is, usually for the lifetime of the author plus 50 years more, and passed to the heirs of the author, even if they do not inherit ownership of the copyright itself. If moral rights can be invoked to prevent publishing a song as a commercial jingle, I wonder if they might be invoked to prevent their its use on American Idol? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/445 "2007-02-25T22:34:16Z")
**lezlers** : Personal insults are not permitted in this forum. You know better. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/446 "2007-02-25T23:59:01Z")
Some interesting things that were posted on the TWOP boards about the blowjob pics. [Evidence that they’re fake](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/xchelsea90x/Image1-4.jpg) [Evidence that they’re real](http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/pictures/20070224/antonella%20barba%20proof/AntonellaStudy1.jpg) Both should be SFW. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/447 "2007-02-26T00:08:39Z")
[QUOTE=lezlers] Again, I wasn’t being snarky, as I said in my post. I was asking out of genuine curiosity. I’m curious about your background because I find it interesting that you so often have a completely opposite take on every performance than most everyone else here and on the show. I’d like to know from what experiences those opinions derive from. Of course, if you want to be all defensive and blow me off in the most jerkish way possible, I suppose that’s your perogative. It’s certainly within character. [/QUOTE] I’m not going to fall into the suicidal trap of making this thread a referendum on my \*credentials \* to hold a personal opinion on AI contestants. But I will point out what I’d’ve thought would be obvious: such personal opinions, while they may be informed by each individual’s experiences and “qualifications,” are not subject to majority rule. As you’ve noticed, I try to make sure that peer pressure, or groupthink, or whatever you want to call it, holds no influence over my critical opinions, on amateur singers or movies or painting or whatever the medium. So, yeah, while sometimes my opinion will fall into line with others’–I agree with the consensus about the best of the women contestants, for example–sometimes, it won’t. **YM** , you might keep in mind, and this is my main point here, **MV**. In fact, I think that if Cafe Society can be said to have a guiding principle, that’s it: _ **YMMV** _. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/448 "2007-02-26T00:12:47Z")
[QUOTE=Talon Karrde] Some interesting things that were posted on the TWOP boards about the blowjob pics. [Evidence that they’re fake](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/xchelsea90x/Image1-4.jpg) [Evidence that they’re real](http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/pictures/20070224/antonella%20barba%20proof/AntonellaStudy1.jpg) Both should be SFW. [/QUOTE] The “real” link gives a server error… ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/449 "2007-02-26T00:24:44Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] I’m not going to fall into the suicidal trap of making this thread a referendum on my \*credentials \* to hold a personal opinion on AI contestants. But I will point out what I’d’ve thought would be obvious: such personal opinions, while they may be informed by each individual’s experiences and “qualifications,” are not subject to majority rule. As you’ve noticed, I try to make sure that peer pressure, or groupthink, or whatever you want to call it, holds no influence over my critical opinions, on amateur singers or movies or painting or whatever the medium. So, yeah, while sometimes my opinion will fall into line with others’–I agree with the consensus about the best of the women contestants, for example–sometimes, it won’t. **YM** , you might keep in mind, and this is my main point here, **MV**. In fact, I think that if Cafe Society can be said to have a guiding principle, that’s it: _ **YMMV** _. [/QUOTE] Calm down, man. I wasn’t saying that your opinions were incorrect or asking you to justify them. I simply wanted to know if you were basing them on techinical training because I thought it would be _interesting_, given your opinions. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/450 "2007-02-26T00:27:43Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] The “real” link gives a server error… [/QUOTE] I thought I could get away with linking to the picture without linking to the page it’s on. [This link](http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/pictures/20070224/antonella%20barba%20proof/AntonellaStudy1.html) should work. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/451 "2007-02-26T00:27:55Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] The “real” link gives a server error… [/QUOTE] you have to delete the "%20"s in the URL and replace them with spaces (whereupon the %20s reappear and the page loads correctly). don’t name folders with spaces, people. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/452 "2007-02-26T02:07:22Z")
[QUOTE=lezlers] Calm down, man. I wasn’t saying that your opinions were incorrect or asking you to justify them. I simply wanted to know if you were basing them on techinical training because I thought it would be _interesting_, given your opinions. Yeesh. [/QUOTE] If your only response to my post is to tell me to “calm down,” then I suggest you reread CKDH’s warning to you above, and remind yourself that discussions in CS are limited to discussing the subject at hand, and not making personal remarks about other posters’ personalities or motivations. I’m not sure why you’re so unable to adhere to this, but as a non mod I recommend you try to keep this particular rule in mind. Even assuming, purely for the sake of conversation, that your wide-eyed innocence is sincere, I feel like I’m being crashingly obvious that there is absolutely no way in hell that my posting my “credentials,” even in response to your explicit request, would be taken as anything other than my arrogant insistance that such credentials are relevant in this discussion. No matter how explicitly I disclaim such an assertion, this thread would immediately be diverted into a hijack pile-on about me and my “credentials.” So thanks, but no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/453 "2007-02-26T03:57:47Z")
Wow. I’m going to 99% stay out of this, but honestly I didn’t see the question as an attack, I saw it as legitimate curiosity. I know that the way I look at art is different because of both my being an artist and from what I’ve learned as an art major, and I can imagine that my critiques of something visual might be quite different from the “general population” in a general conversation about such things. It really seemed to me like an innocent curiosity. Mind you, I don’t know either one of you so if there is some history on either side I’m unaware of, then nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/454 "2007-02-26T11:50:32Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Wow. I’m going to 99% stay out of this, but honestly I didn’t see the question as an attack, I saw it as legitimate curiosity. I know that the way I look at art is different because of both my being an artist and from what I’ve learned as an art major, and I can imagine that my critiques of something visual might be quite different from the “general population” in a general conversation about such things. It really seemed to me like an innocent curiosity. Mind you, I don’t know either one of you so if there is some history on either side I’m unaware of, then nevermind. [/QUOTE] You have to understand that **Dex** does not actually _read_ AI threads as they are too long and stupid. He just waits for someone to bitch about somebody else’s “tone” and then admonishes whoever the bitchee names. It is not any long history between any two Dopers. It is the history of one single Doper being pretentious and then acting nasty when called on it. Will be waiting for my admonishment too. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/455 "2007-02-26T14:55:57Z")
**Biggirl** - Comments about Moderators belong in the Pit Forum, not here. And you well know it. You want an admonishment, you got one: that was deliberate misbehavior on your part. For the record: I have never pretended to read all threads. I respond to complaints. If the complaint is about a short thread, I usually read the whole thread. If the complaint comes around page 8, no, I do not usuaully read much more than a few posts leading up to the complaint. And I do NOT always agree with the complaint. And the question about credential or background was not the basis of this complaint (which, by the way, did NOT come from **lissener** ) – the basis of this complaint was calling another poster for “jerkish” behavior. That’s a personal insult and a Moderator’s call. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/456 "2007-02-26T15:17:44Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] **Biggirl** - Comments about Moderators belong in the Pit Forum, not here. And you well know it. You want an admonishment, you got one: that was deliberate misbehavior on your part. For the record: I have never pretended to read all threads. I respond to complaints. If the complaint is about a short thread, I usually read the whole thread. If the complaint comes around page 8, no, I do not usuaully read much more than a few posts leading up to the complaint. And I do NOT always agree with the complaint. And the question about credential or background was not the basis of this complaint (which, by the way, did NOT come from **lissener** ) – the basis of this complaint was calling another poster for “jerkish” behavior. That’s a personal insult and a Moderator’s call. [/QUOTE] Yes, of course. Although nothing you’ve said here changes anything I said in my post. I wasn’t complaining about the moderation, only explaining how these things seem to pass in AI threads. So the lesson is: Ignore the nasty. If people want to get nasty and defensive and jerkish in an AI thread, just let them. Ignore them. It’ll only lead to heartache if you respond. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/457 "2007-02-27T06:38:12Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Yes, of course. Although nothing you’ve said here changes anything I said in my post. I wasn’t complaining about the moderation, only explaining how these things seem to pass in AI threads. So the lesson is: Ignore the nasty. If people want to get nasty and defensive and jerkish in an AI thread, just let them. Ignore them. It’ll only lead to heartache if you respond. [/QUOTE] I think CK had a bad day. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/458 "2007-02-27T07:42:39Z")
[QUOTE=Eleusis] If there are pics on the 'net with a cock her mouth, she’s GONE. [/QUOTE] Well, I’ve seen them, and they’re out here “on the 'net”. So yeah, I still say she’s gone. However, in my esteemed opinion: “FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP”. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988/459 "2007-02-27T13:51:54Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] So the lesson is: Ignore the nasty. If people want to get nasty and defensive and jerkish in an AI thread, just let them. Ignore them. It’ll only lead to heartache if you respond. [/QUOTE] NO. The lesson is (1) do not respond in kind and (2) hit the REPORT BAD POST button, the little ! in the red triangle in the upper right corner of the post in which you think they are being jerkish. Let the Moderators decide whether they are being jerkish. Being jerkish is a violation of Rules, and the Moderators are the ones to make that decision. Calling someone jerkish is a violation of the rules in Cafe Society. And that has to do with any situation, any topic, and any forum. If the thread is a long one, please provide detailed explanation, because the Moderators really don’t want to spend time reading through a huge long thread (almost all of which is irrelevant to the complaint) for a topic they’re not interested in. You know this, **Biggirl** , and you are now forcing me to close this thread because you’re hijacking it. I told you, comments about Moderators belong in the Pit. (As a Moderator, I am not allowed to start a Pit thread, so I have to reply here.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-feb-20-22/392988.md?page=22)