# American Idol: Mandisa Comes Out As Homophobic **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140 "2006-05-09T23:14:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/21 "2006-05-10T19:09:37Z")
Well, yes, but my point was that **Diogenes** was attacking the issue based on a “fact” that the other side totally denies, which means that he won’t get anywhere without attacking that basic difference. And the hijack gets even deeper. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/22 "2006-05-10T19:11:24Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Not to hijack even further, but here’s the basic disagreement here. There are lots of folks who think that sexual orientation IS a complete choice, making all of your further statements invalid. I think you’re attacking completely the wrong point here. [/QUOTE] There are also people who think the earth is flat, and that we never landed on the moon, and the evolution is “just a theory.” We marginalize them, too. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/23 "2006-05-10T19:30:00Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Well, yes, but my point was that **Diogenes** was attacking the issue based on a “fact” that the other side totally denies, which means that he won’t get anywhere without attacking that basic difference. And the hijack gets even deeper. [/QUOTE] Are NOI believers not really racist if the honestly believe that white people are descended from the devil? Does that one belief make their other beliefs more rational? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/24 "2006-05-10T19:34:24Z")
NOI? And yes, they are racist and irrational. But I wouldn’t try to argue with them by showing statistics involving IQ tests and employment. I’d attack the basic, underlying belief that keeps them apart from the civilized: that white people are descended from the devil. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/25 "2006-05-10T19:40:13Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] NOI? [/QUOTE] NOI = Nation Of Islam ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/26 "2006-05-10T19:47:16Z")
It’s theoretically possible that someone could hold the belief that homosexuality is sinful (ie, “wrong”) but believes in hating -the-sin-loving-the-sinner. That person could then be described as “believing that homosexuality is wrong”, but not necessarily “homophobic”. But I have no idea if Mandisa falls into that category or not. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/27 "2006-05-10T19:52:36Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] It’s theoretically possible that someone could hold the belief that homosexuality is sinful (ie, “wrong”) but believes in hating -the-sin-loving-the-sinner. That person could then be described as “believing that homosexuality is wrong”, but not necessarily “homophobic”. [/QUOTE] Except that’s a misconception, because the “sinner” cannot be distinguished from the “sin.” Homosexuality is not a behavior, but a state of being. So, ultimately, whether you have a religious justification for your bigotry is irrelevant; it’s still bigotry; it’s still homophobia. The word “homophobia” doesn’t address the reasons for the aversion; it merely denotes the aversion, without comment. It’s denotative, not connotative. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/28 "2006-05-10T19:58:39Z")
And again, since those who are homophobic generally think that homosexuality IS a behavior, it’s dangerous to argue with that already in assumption. Which is all I was saying before. (God, I hope I’m making sense - my head is muddled to begin with. OTOH, should I be concerned with that, considering the huge hijack going on that I’m aiding and abetting? :)) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/29 "2006-05-10T20:10:21Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] It’s theoretically possible that someone could hold the belief that homosexuality is sinful (ie, “wrong”) but believes in hating -the-sin-loving-the-sinner. That person could then be described as “believing that homosexuality is wrong”, but not necessarily “homophobic”. But I have no idea if Mandisa falls into that category or not. [/QUOTE] “Believing that homosexuality is wrong” \*\*\*IS \*\*\*homophobia. That’s the definition. Have you been reading this thread at all? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/30 "2006-05-10T20:22:09Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] And again, since those who are homophobic generally think that homosexuality IS a behavior, it’s dangerous to argue with that already in assumption. Which is all I was saying before. [/QUOTE] LIke, racists generally think that black people ARE genetically inferior, so it’s dangerous to argue with them, what, unless you allow that as a given? I’m not parsing. ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/31 "2006-05-10T20:26:02Z")
OK, anyone know anything about the OP? I kind of like Mandisa’s singing and would hate to have a mental asterisk next to her name when I hear her. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/32 "2006-05-10T20:26:53Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] “Believing that homosexuality is wrong” \*\*\*IS \*\*\*homophobia. That’s the definition. Have you been reading this thread at all? [/QUOTE] There’s no need for that tone. I was drawing a fine distinction (one that I don’t personally agree with, btw) between aversion to the behavior, and aversion to the people. But I agree with \*\*lissener \*\* that the two are indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/33 "2006-05-10T20:48:07Z")
[QUOTE=Reloy3] OK, anyone know anything about the OP? I kind of like Mandisa’s singing and would hate to have a mental asterisk next to her name when I hear her. [/QUOTE] Yes, [here’s the original Advocate article](http://www.advocate.com/print_article.asp?id=29157). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/34 "2006-05-10T21:09:42Z")
I don’t know why I keep coming to Mandisa’s defense – I didn’t like her, and I don’t agree with her viewpoint…but: She doesn’t sound quite so homophobic in the Advocate interview; slightly more averse than not wanting to be Grand Marshall of a Gay Freedom Day Parade (I exaggerate somewhat). ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/35 "2006-05-10T21:25:39Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Yes, [here’s the original Advocate article](http://www.advocate.com/print_article.asp?id=29157). [/QUOTE] Well, I must say she doesn’t come off as a bigot at all in that article. To Quote: > [@](#): > > \*\*There’s been controversy about your comments on the Idol Web site and your appreciation for antigay writer and lecturer Beth Moore. Some took it as an endorsement of the “ex-gay” movement. What do you say to people who were turned off by that? \*\* > I just heard about that a couple of days ago. It broke my heart. I live my life by the value system that you treat others the way you want to be treated. I let love be my guide. I absolutely hate no one. When I heard that I was really upset. > > \*\*Is there a conflict between being religious and being gay? \*\* > I know my value system, based on that, that on the word [of the Bible], that it does speak of that. I do know I have no place to judge anybody. I know that at the end of time we all face the judge and his name is not going to be Mandisa, so I cannot place any judgment on anyone. > > \*\*Before you sang the Mary, Mary gospel song “Wanna Praise You,” you mentioned that people’s various addictions and lifestyles are not as strong as God. Were you speaking of gay people? \*\* > No, no. That song was a very personal testimony for me. I’ve been dealing with an addiction to food for most of my life. I’ve been living in a lifestyle of pure indulgence, giving in to every single desire that I’ve had as far as what I’ve put into my body. So when I was speaking that, I was strictly speaking of how the Lord has helped me to overcome my personal struggle and I was just saying if God can do it for me—and a lot of other people face many different things out there—I was trying to be a testimony that he can do it for anybody. > > **Do you think gay people can turn straight?** > I don’t really know. I honestly don’t know much about it. I wouldn’t be very knowledgeable to speak on that subject. Maybe not the most enlightened woman in the world, but certainly not the screaming bigot implied by the MSNBC article, and certainly not something I would “boo her offstage” for, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/36 "2006-05-10T21:29:06Z")
She seems a little evasive in the Advocate interview, but her expressed admiration for Beth Moore, along with her active association with Moore’s ministry say a lot in and of themselves. Moore is a pretty vile individual. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/37 "2006-05-10T21:30:33Z")
[QUOTE=Reloy3] Well, I must say she doesn’t come off as a bigot at all in that article. To Quote: Maybe not the most enlightened woman in the world, but certainly not the screaming bigot implied by the MSNBC article, and certainly not something I would “boo her offstage” for, IMHO. [/QUOTE] There are worse bigots out there, no question. BUt to say you wouldn’t perform at a gay event, would be like me saying I wouldn’t perform at a black event. It’s still bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/38 "2006-05-10T21:31:13Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] She doesn’t sound quite so homophobic in the Advocate interview; slightly more averse than not wanting to be Grand Marshall of a Gay Freedom Day Parade (I exaggerate somewhat). [/QUOTE] Certainly she’s as much of a ragin’ homophobe as Phelps; but she’s closer to him than she is to Larry Kramer. I’ll temporarily let her slide when she claims she didn’t know about Beth Moore’s support of Exodus. We’ll see when her “Mandisa Ministries” website returns whether she still links to Moore’s, which then goes on to Exodus. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/39 "2006-05-10T21:32:04Z")
[QUOTE=Reloy3] Actually no, I don’t. I thought I followed AI fairly closely, and I remember her singing Gospel, but I don’t remember that. I must have been really out of it. Then we really need a new word rather than homophobia. If it means something so broad as to mean “I disagree” than the “phobia” part seems really propagandistic. [/QUOTE] Sure. Lets come up with a new word for homophobia so homophobes can deny that they’re either. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140/40 "2006-05-10T21:35:35Z")
“Disagreeing” with homosexuality betrays the bigotry and ignorance of the person who “disagrees.” It is a self-centered, pathological notion that the mere existence of people different from you can and should be objected to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-mandisa-comes-out-as-homophobic/356140.md?page=3)