# American Indian soverignity **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047 "2002-06-14T14:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/1 "2002-06-14T14:55:12Z")
We all know that the United States recognizes the soverignity of several American Indian nations within the borders of the United States. My questions about them deal with the extent of that soverignity. I know that people who are members of these Indian nations are also U.S. citizens by an Act of Congress. The question is, are they also “citizens” of their respective nations. Do some of them carry Chrokee passports? If they had an airport, could someone fly from the reservation to Great Britian on one of their passports? Do the residents of these reservations pay federal income tax? State income tax of the states in which they are located? When the U.S. calculates it’s land area, does it include the area of the reservations? Can these Indian nations appoint ambassadors and diplomats to other countries? Can they sign treaties with Canada? Can they declare war? If not with other countries (such as Canada, etc.) can they declare war or sign treaties with other Indian nations? Does any other nation aside from the United States (and other American Indian nations) recognize these nations? Is extradition necessary to retrieve a criminal from these nations? If a killer runs to the Cherokee nation, can the FBI or any other federal or local agency follow him in there, or does he need to be extradited? Can they coin/print their own money? The federal government guarantees a republican form of government to all it’s citizens. Since American Indians are U.S. citizens, does that mean that tribal leaders (or whatever form of government these nations have) have to have republican forms of government? And if so, then are these nations truly soverign if they must listen to the United States in terms of how to form their government? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/2 "2002-06-14T15:22:59Z")
Zev See Peter d’Errico’s article, [Sovereignty: A Brief History in the Context of U.S. Indian law](http://www.umass.edu/legal/derrico/sovereignty.html), from the Legal Studies Department at the University of Massachusetts. It should answer most of your questions about American Indian sovereignty. As you will see, the courts have been all over the place with this. But in general, the U.S. federal government calls the shots. The [Cherokee Nation](http://www.cherokee.org/) has a government, complete with executive, legislative, and judicial branches. But there are no ambassadors. It is generally understood that sovereignty for American Indians is subordinate to that of their conquerors. ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/3 "2002-06-14T16:27:12Z")
This still comes into question fairly often. The most obvious recent issue is that of casino gambling. Another interesting one is that of recreational drugs. There’s a tribe (and dammit, I can’t remember the name, but I believe they’re located in the southwest) that’s repeatedly grown large crops of marijuana. The DEA has repeatedly stepped in to destroy the crops, although I don’t believe arrests have been made. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/4 "2002-06-14T17:26:17Z")
Those are the Sioux. They want to grow hemp. And they’re in South Dakota. From the Rapid City Journal (August 14, 1998): > [@](#): > > PINE RIDGE - Some members of the Oglala Sioux Tribe are moving forward with plans to cultivate hemp, even if they have to take the Drug Enforcement Administration to federal court. > > Hemp has grown in the wild for decades on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, despite the DEA’s repeated attempts - spraying and dousing with chemicals, setting fields on fire - to wipe it out. Growing hemp, which is a cousin to marijuana, is illegal. > > The Land-Use Association, a group of tribal members in the small reservation town of Slim Bittes, wants to turn the tall hemp stalks into paper, mats, construction blocks for housing and other products. The group says the money-making venture would create jobs and homes in the impoverished area. > > Milo Yellow Hair, the tribe’s vice president, said the reservation has strugged with the issue for at least two years and finally decided to proceed with the hemp project after other economic development initiatives failed. > > “Now we are left to tackle the so-called gray area initiatives,” he said. “When they hear the word hemp, they think marijuana. Then they think drug use, and then they think police state. But that’s not what what we want to do.” > > Hemp and marijuana are both varieties of the cannabis sativa plant, but hemp typically contains less than 1 percent of the narcotic chemical THC. Marijuana plants contain 10 percent to 20 percent THC, which makes pot smokers high. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/5 "2002-06-14T17:47:37Z")
Another wrinkle concerns Social Security SSI eligibility. For example, are casino receipts “income?” Another guy in our office handles all of these questions. I remember a case a couple of years back where a Wisc tribe bought a condo on Michigan Ave. in Chi, and tried to declar it an adjunct part of their reservation. I’ll talk to him later this aft and see if he has anything to add. I can’t remember what, if any, taxes I paid last year on groceries bought on a rez. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/6 "2002-06-14T18:04:18Z")
My understanding is that the reservations’ status is not full sovereignty but merely autonomy within a larger country. This kind of legal construction can be found in many nations in the world with ethnic minorities, and usually the autonomous areas have certain rights in interior affairs but no authority to deal internationally - these privileges are reserved by the central government. Interior policies yes, foreign policies no. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/7 "2002-06-14T18:09:14Z")
Folks…I live close to the Largest Casino on the face of this Planet. Called FOXWOODS RESORT CASINO owned and operated by the **Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation** in southeastern Connecticut. They are a Sovereign Nation, Connecticut State Troopers are not even allowed to arrest anyone on their property. If you commit any crime you go to Tribal court, i.e. caught with marijuana, cocaine, heroin etc…etc… you go to tribal court, steal, assault…on and on… you get the point. And the kicker is, there are less than 400 verified tribal members and the king bee, Skip Haywood, is worth around what Billy Gates is…and the casino only opened in 1992. Do a google search on Foxwoods and check it out, it is actually quite impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/8 "2002-06-14T20:49:31Z")
You may also like to review the Bureau of Indian Affairs’ list of frequently asked questions. Unfortunately, that site has been pulled off the Internet because of federal ineptitude (and quite likely avarice) as a result of the [Cobell litigation](http://www.indiantrust.com/). [Here](http://www.goia.wa.gov/faq.html) is a similar list compiled by the state of Washington. I’ll try to list a lot of these questions and answer them, but due to the lack of a BIA website, I’ll not be able to provide a lot of citations. > [@](#): > > Do some of them carry Chrokee passports? The idea is gaining some momentum, particularly from the traditionalist branch of the [Mohawks](http://www.kahonwes.com/blood/citizen.htm). These passports definitely won’t work within the United States, but it is possible that once outside of the United States a Mohawk tribal member could attempt to travel on that passport. However, the United States has shot this idea down in the past, so don’t count on them being cooperative about it. > [@](#): > > Do the residents of these reservations pay federal income tax? State income tax of the states in which they are located? Federal? Hell, yes. State? _Hell, no!_ At least not yet. Virtually every year, some version of the [“Istook Bill”](http://www.ncai.org/data/docs/legislative/1999_2000/legupdate5.17.99.htm) gets introduced into Congress which would mandate that tribal corporations and sometimes members must pay a “state equivalence” sales tax or something similar. A note on federal Indian law: the Supremes have determined that Congress is the final decisionmaker on exactly what the extent of Indian sovereignty is. That essentially means that at any time, Congress can wipe out the sovereignty of American Indian tribes. Since that is politically inexpedient, since the 1970s those who oppose tribal sovereignty have worked on the erosion principle. Right now, about the last thing that tribes enjoy is freedom from state-imposed taxes, and for good reason. Tribes don’t get state health, infrastructure, or education funds. What they get in return for shitty roads, water, education and health care is the right of self-determination. > [@](#): > > When the U.S. calculates it’s land area, does it include the area of the reservations? I’m pretty sure the answer is, “yes.” However, American Indian land is land _held in trust_ by the United States for the exclusive use and benefit of Indian tribes. This supposedly ensures that Indian land cannot be alienated without the explicit approval of the United States. In practice, the United States facilitated some of the largest–and sometimes illegal–land grabs in our nation’s history, both by not compensating tribes for their treaty-arranged trading of land for other territory and basic services, or by “allotting” the land to tribal members in fee, whereupon state and local entities would impose prohibitive taxes and annex the territory for failure to pay. > [@](#): > > Can these Indian nations appoint ambassadors and diplomats to other countries? Probably not. Indian nations exist on the premise that, while they enjoy elements of sovereignty, they have surrendered the right to dictate their own foreign policy. This is not unique to American Indian tribes. I believe the Marshall and Mariana Islands have similar arrangements with the United States–internal autonomy, but external deference to American foreign policy. Several tribes along the border of the U.S. and Canada have treaties with both the U.S. and Canada. Red Lake and the Mohawks spring readily to mind. However, at least one tribe has appointed [“ambassadors”](http://energycommerce.house.gov/107/hearings/06272001Hearing307/Blackwell501.htm) to… the United States! Other tribes participate in international associations independent of the United States. > [@](#): > > Is extradition necessary to retrieve a criminal from these nations? If a killer runs to the Cherokee nation, can the FBI or any other federal or local agency follow him in there, or does he need to be extradited? Yes, and no. Organizations with federal jurisdiction, such as the ATF, FBI, and DEA, have free reign to enter Indian reservations and nab (or, in the case of Pine Ridge, possibly [assassinate](http://www.geocities.com/crazyoglala/WipingTears_Lurie.html)) anyone they want. State law enforcement, on the other hand, are generally prohibited from entering a reservation. This is the origin of the over-reported and misunderstood stories of a tribal member running back onto the reservation after committing a crime. It is easily overcome with cross-deputization agreements, but states generally don’t want Indian law enforcement to enjoy the same privileges they themselves demand from the reservations, so many tribes don’t have cross-deputization agreements. > [@](#): > > Can they coin/print their own money? Only if you count a casino as a license to print money, my friend! > [@](#): > > Since American Indians are U.S. citizens, does that mean that tribal leaders (or whatever form of government these nations have) have to have republican forms of government? And if so, then are these nations truly soverign if they must listen to the United States in terms of how to form their government? Yes, in general tribes must have a constitution that guarantees a form of representative government. There is a standard constitution, actually printed as a fill-in-the-blank form and known informally as an “IRA” (as in the 1934 Indian Reorganization Act) constitution, which can be used. Many tribes choose to create their own governments and government titles, within certain delineated limits. There are two [tribal towns](http://www.kialegee.org/) in Oklahoma which elect “Kings.” Most tribes elect a tribal council which performs most of the functions of tribal government. ---
**Author:** ![andy\_fl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@andy\_fl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andy_fl)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/9 "2002-06-14T21:15:24Z")
Is it derogatory to call native Americans - “Indians” ?? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/10 "2002-06-14T21:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\* > Federal? Hell, yes. State? _Hell, no!_ At least not yet. Virtually every year, some version of the [“Istook Bill”](http://www.ncai.org/data/docs/legislative/1999_2000/legupdate5.17.99.htm) gets introduced into Congress which would mandate that tribal corporations and sometimes members must pay a “state equivalence” sales tax or something similar. \*\* This is a contentious issue in New York State. There are a number of reservations in the western half of the state. Non-reservation residents go on the reservations to buy tobacco and alcohol, which aren’t taxed there, but would be if they were sold off reservation. As you can imagine, New York State isn’t happy about this loss of revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/11 "2002-06-14T22:51:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Is it derogatory to call native Americans - “Indians” ?? As I understand it, most American Indians are perfectly comfortable with the term “Indian.” I, as an Asian-Indian American, prefer to reserve the term “Indian” for people like me and use the term “Native American” for those my grandparents refer to as “Red Indians.” ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/12 "2002-06-15T02:47:37Z")
When the Cherokees in NC opened their casino they got permission from the state of NC to do it. I thought that was kind of strange because I didn’t think they needed to get permission. Right now all they have is video poker. Of course maybe it was just a formality and the state of NC could not have denied their request. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/13 "2002-06-15T10:10:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andy\_fl \* > \*\*Is it derogatory to call native Americans - “Indians” ?? \*\* No. The geographer Martin Waldsmuller named the land “America” in 1507, after Italian explorer Amerigo Vespucci, who wrote to Pier Soderini, Gonfalonier of the Republic of Florence in 1497: > [@](#): > > We landed in a harbour, where we found a village built like Venice upon the water: there were about 44 large dwellings in the form of huts erected upon very thick piles, and they had their doors or entrances in the style of drawbridges: and from each house one could pass through all, by means of the drawbridges which stretched from house to house: and when the people thereof had seen us, they appeared to be afraid of us, and immediately drew up all the bridges: and while we were looking at this strange action, we saw coming across the sea about 22 canoes, which are a kind of boats of theirs, constructed from a single tree: which came towards our boats, as they had been surprised by our appearance and clothes, and kept wide of us: and thus remaining, we made signals to them that they should approach us, encouraging them will [sic] every token of friendliness: and seeing that they did not come, we went to them, and they did not stay for us, but made to the land, and, by signs, told us to wait, and that they should soon return: and they went to a hill in the background, and did not delay long: when they returned, they led with them 16 of their girls, and entered with these into their canoes, and came to the boats: and in each boat they put 4 of the girls. That we marvelled at this behavior your Magnificence can imagine how much, and they placed themselves with their canoes among our boats, coming to speak with us: insomuch that we deemed it a mark of friendliness: and while thus engaged, we beheld a great number of people advance swimming towards us across the sea, who came from the houses: and as they were drawing near to us without any apprehension: just then there appeared at the doors of the houses certain old women, uttering very loud cries and tearing their hair to exhibit grief: whereby they made us suspicious, and we each betook ourselves to arms: and instantly the girls whom we had in the boats, threw themselves into the sea, and the men of the canoes drew away from us, and began with their bows to shoot arrows at us: and those who were swimming each carried a lance held, as covertly as they could, beneath the water: so that, recognizing the treachery, we engaged with them, not merely to defend ourselves, but to attack them vigorously, and we overturned with our boats many of their almadie or canoes, for so they call them, we made a slaughter (of them), and they all flung themselves into the water to swim, leaving their canoes abandoned, with considerable loss on their side, they went swimming away to the shore: there died of them about 15 or 20, and many were left wounded: and of ours 5 were wounded, and all, by the grace of God, escaped (death): we captured two of the girls and two men: and we proceeded to their houses, and entered therein, and in them all we found nothing else than two old women and a sick man: we took away from them many things, but of small value: and we would not burn their houses, because it seemed to us (as though that would be) a burden upon our conscience: and we returned to our boats with five prisoners: and betook ourselves to the ships, and put a pair of irons on the feet of each of the captives, except the little girls: and when the night came on, the two girls and one of the men fled away in the most subtle manner possible… Native Americans? No, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/14 "2002-06-15T10:16:01Z")
By the way, he took, in all, 222 people as “captive slaves” on that first voyage, and sold them at the port of Calis (Cadiz) in Spain on October 15, 1498. “God be thanked,” he told the Gonfalonier. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/15 "2002-06-15T18:43:15Z")
> [@](#): > > When the Cherokees in NC opened their casino they got permission from the state of NC to do it. I thought that was kind of strange because I didn’t think they needed to get permission. Right now all they have is video poker. It is _de facto_ permission. A tribe is required by the terms of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act to enter into a compact with the state in which a particular reservation resides. States _must_ enter into a compact. However, there is no timetable for the agreement process and no penalties for delay. The practical result is that states which do not want tribal gaming can simply delay the process indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/16 "2002-06-15T20:12:31Z")
[small hijackish nitpick] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > This is not unique to American Indian tribes. I believe the Marshall and Mariana Islands have similar arrangements with the United States–internal autonomy, but external deference to American foreign policy. Actually the Marshall and _Caroline_ Islands (the latter as as the Federated States of Micronesia and the Republic of Palau) are recognized as full sovereign nations and have their own Ambassadors to the UN and to Washington, but they _are_ bound by the terms of their “association” to American national-security policy. The Northern Marianas became a “commonwealth” like PR, a category of US territory with high internal autonomy but fully under American jurisdiction [/small hijackish nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/17 "2002-06-16T04:33:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\* > Can they coin/print their own money? > \*\* Actually…and I don’t have a cite for this right on hand, so I hope no one challenges me, but…there is no prohibition in the US against local governments printing their own currency, as long as it is in denominations of at least $1. A few years ago I read about some city in upstate NY that was doing it, they called their currency “Hours”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/18 "2002-06-17T15:29:24Z")
> [@](#): > > My understanding is that the reservations’ status is not full sovereignty but merely autonomy within a larger country. This kind of legal construction can be found in many nations in the world with ethnic minorities, There is also a similar legal construction for those of us Americans who are not members of an American Indian nation, to wit, each of the 50 states is a sovereign state that exists within a larger sovereign state. ---
**Author:** ![MHand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@MHand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHand)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-indian-soverignity/114047/19 "2002-06-17T21:02:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weird\_AL\_Einstein \* > \*\* > A few years ago I read about some city in upstate NY that was doing it, they called their currency “Hours”. \*\* What you’re probably refering to are Ithaca Hours: [http://www.ithacahours.org/](http://www.ithacahours.org/) As someone who lived in Ithaca, NY for 5 1/2 years, I’ll add my personal opinion that Ithaca Hours were a total flop. Its induction without a base case. Businesses won’t accept Ithaca Hours in exchange for merchendise if they can’t pay their employees in Ithaca Hours, and employees won’t accept Ithaca Hours as a wage payment if businesses don’t take them in exchange for goods and services. US Dollars suffer from this same theoretical problem, but for some reason people accept them, and thus, I choose to accept them as well.