# American media & businesses say, "Jesus Who?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225 "2003-12-10T23:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/1 "2003-12-10T23:39:25Z")
This isn’t a rant as much as a lament. However, I’m sure the evangelical athiests of the SDMB will be in to piss all over the topic so I’ll start it here. This morning I was struck by the American media & marketing groups’ expunging of Christ from Christmas. When visiting the CBS & NBC websites, I found reindeer (both Rudolf & Robbie), Santa, & Randy Quaid as “Cousin Eddie” in a sequel National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation. Good Lord, there’s even a “holiday-themed” episode of “Fear Factor”. CBS gives a nod to tradition by showing “A Charlie Brown Christmas” this season. I’m sure there was debate at CBS over its inclusion of the Gospel of Luke. The politically-correct, marketing-approved, religiously non-offensive version of Christmas television is now all **Holiday** entertainment. The American media and marketing culture would really appreciate it if we could simply ignore the “Christ” in “Christmas”. There’s a lot of Santa, reindeer, snow & elves but no Messiah. To get “Christ” in Christmas, you must have to import it (The Wiggles actually sang “Away in a Manger”). It occurred to me this morning that “A Christmas Carol” is remade again and again because it’s capable of delivering a warm message of Christmas love and salvation that complete ignores Christ! It’s politically safe, non-religious entertainment. The other evening, our local evening weatherman said, “Christmas Season”. He quickly corrected himself to “Holiday Season”. Lord knows we don’t want to offend the practioners of other religions. They offended might switch channels and not see the commercial with the dancing toilet bowl cleaners. Jews have a minor religious holiday during the Christmas season. Hanukah has become blown out of proportion in the name of inclusiveness. Most importantly to the media, and their commercial supporters, is that Hanukah is involves _gifts_ and therefore the spending of money (Yom Kippur is too much a downer for marketing). For that reason we must not risk any offense. Kwanzaa, often represented as a religious alternative to Christmas. The creation of this “holiday” has polarized the season into three segments. Hanukah for Jews, Kwanzaa for African-Americans, and Christmas for everybody else. The fact is that Kwanza was created specifically as a non-religious holiday. This is despite the obvious attempt to co-opt the Christmas holiday with the choice of the dates (_even more evident when you consider Kwanzaa is based on African harvest festivals and nobody is doing much harvesting in the winter_). The Kwanzaa “Imani” principal (Swahili for “faith”) is not faith in a supernatural being but rather faith in self and community. From the official Kwanzaa site: _Imani (Faith): To believe with all our heart in our people, our parents, our teachers, our leaders and the righteousness and victory of our struggle._. The creator of Kwanzaa, Dr. Karenga, is himself rather anti-religion, “…Kwanzaa is not an imitation, but an alternative, in fact, and **oppositional alternative** to the spookism, mysticism and non-earth based practices which plague us as a people… (1977)” (bolding mine) _Unrelated to my point but interesting, I found that Dr. Karenga, the source of this unifying holiday, was convicted and sentenced for two counts of felonious assault and one count of false imprisonment (in September 1971) for detainment and torture of Deborah Jones and Gail Davis (including burning the face and mouth of Davis with a soldering iron and the whipping of them with an electrical cord after their being ordered to undress). Both of them are African-American._ Yes, also, I’m aware that the winter solstice is a focal point for various Pagan religions but I think it can be said that these religions have little influence on the holiday season as controlled and marketed by the media. So - what we have is a primarily Christian holiday season (Kwanzaa being non-religious & Yom Kippur being comparitively minor from a religious point of view) from which mainstream media would have all references to Christ removed. Season’s Greetings!" screams the screen. “Happy Holidays!” says the billboard. Saying “Merry Christmas” might lose business. Dammit! If this is “Christmas” than it’s about Christ! To the detractors, yes, I know a lot of the iconography of the season is Pagan in origin. Yes, I know that Jesus wasn’t actually born on the 25th of December and the choice of date is based more on Beltain & the Saturnalia than Jesus’ actual birth date. Yes, I know about the three wise men, evergreens, holly leaves, & mistletoe. That’s not the point. December 25th is celebrated as the birthday of Christ - it’s not _when_ he was born, it’s that he _was born_. It’s the second-most important holiday on the Christian calender, perhaps the most celebrated holiday by all Western cultures but our schools, the media, & the stores would have us believe it’s all about gift-giving. Also, to you detractors, if Jesus wasn’t the son of God then let’s just eliminate the holiday without trying to secularize it. The “Joy & Hope & Love” message that the media would give as the “true meaning” of Christmas is an outgrowth of Christian beliefs. Lord knows it’s not a remnant of the Saturnalia. Thanks for listening… …oh - and Merry Christmas ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/2 "2003-12-10T23:56:23Z")
If you want more Christ in your Christmas might I suggest more time spent in church and less watching television? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/3 "2003-12-10T23:59:06Z")
Frankly, I’m pissed off that they took the Saturn out of Saturnalia and put that upstart JC in there in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/4 "2003-12-10T23:59:40Z")
Actually [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/3wisemen.asp) talks about the fact that nobody knows how many wise men there were. Oh, but to your point. If there was a Merry Buddamas I would probably shrug it off and say, “Cool, Buddists get a day to themselves.” What’s happened is that since **Christ** mas has turned into a 2+ month affair, folks are concerned about either having **Christ** shoved down their throat or being the shover for 2 months and I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/5 "2003-12-11T00:00:26Z")
Lighten up a bit, Scrooge!! Actually, the gift giving and lights aspect have always been secular, and the commercialism of the holidays has always had its detractors in the Christian community. Christmas itself was shunned by many American protestant denominations, even banned in some places, up until the late 19th century. Some still shun it. So don’t get on your fun-killing high horse and tell us how we should be celebrating the holidays. No one is stopping you. Few, I am sure want to even be around you. I suggest you go to church, at midnight at the beginning of Christmas day, at a catholic church, in a largely hispanic neighborhood. You will get lots of religiuos pagentry. Frankenscence smoke. Priest processionals; and a joyous sermon (hopefully in english). ---
**Author:** ![LVgeogeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b19c9b/32.png) [@LVgeogeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVgeogeek)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/6 "2003-12-11T00:02:43Z")
* * * ## Belrix: (Kwanzaa being non-religious & Yom Kippur being comparitively minor from a religious point of view) from did you mean Hanukkah instead of Yom Kippur? ---
**Author:** ![White\_Ink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@White\_Ink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Ink)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/7 "2003-12-11T00:07:02Z")
> [@](#): > > So - what we have is a primarily Christian holiday season (Kwanzaa being non-religious & Yom Kippur being comparitively minor from a religious point of view) from which mainstream media would have all references to Christ removed. Season’s Greetings!" screams the screen. “Happy Holidays!” says the billboard. Saying “Merry Christmas” might lose business. Just for fun, I’m sure you meant, Chanukah, not Yom Kippur. I have to say, I’m curious about your lament. Your criticism lies chiefly in the secular portrayal of christmas in what is basically secular media. I would think that Christians overall would be THRILLED! You get your holiday back to celebrate in your churches as you see fit! Why does the secular aspect matter at all? Do you care what the news media and the advertisers think? Are you not celebrating your holiday in your sacred place of worship? BTW, please give me back my decorated tree, my reindeer, my elves, my bells, my stars, my red and green, my mistletoe and my holly and my oak, and my presents … as much of this comes directly from ancient British solstice celebrations. These remnants of my heritage mean something to me, please stop hijacking them and applying them to your holiday. They’re MINE! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/8 "2003-12-11T00:16:09Z")
Anyone have to lyrics to that “Let’s put the Christ back in Christmas” comedy song they play on the Bob & Tom radio show sometimes? Good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/9 "2003-12-11T00:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Belrix \* > \*\*…oh - and Merry Christmas \*\* Happy Holidays to you! 😛 FaerieBeth ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/10 "2003-12-11T00:25:30Z")
Putting a pine tree in your living room, hanging socks on the wall and buying overpriced plastic pieces of shit from the nearest retail supermall has dick to do with Christ. If you want to celebrate a Christian holiday, go to church, say a prayer, feed a homeless person. I’m personally sick of people trebling their electric bill with a thousand blinking light bulbs hanging off their eves, spending their “tithe” money on the new Pink Power Rangers dolls and dressing up in a red fat suit to fool their children and then bitching about the loss of religioius meaning during the holidays. I can’t wait until I’m king. Christmas? Gone!! People will be forced to spend time with their families because they want to and not because it’s marked on a fucking calendar. Happy Festivus. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/11 "2003-12-11T00:27:18Z")
I don’t see anything wrong with making the season more inclusive, especially since “holiday” can mean anything from Christmas or a day off from school/work nowadays. You can make the day sacred. Spend the whole day in church in prayer and meditation. Refrain from television. Fast. Bask in the fellowship of other Christians. Volunteer at a Christian charity. There’s nothing stopping you from making Christmas a holy day. I grew up in a very religious home, but we enjoyed a pretty “secular” Christmas, full of Christmas trees, Santa Clause mythology, and cheesy Christmas carols. Even when the day fell on a Sunday, we always stayed home and opened presents over eggnog, cookies, and the Temptations. My parents practically live in church, so purposefully not going to church was a Big Deal. My parents sort of adopted the philosophy that a holiday is something humans create…the Higher Power couldn’t care less. If you have to wait till December 25 to be thankful for Jesus’s existence, then you’re sort of missing the point anyway. I admit that it peeves me when people “x” out Christ in “Christmas”. Why do they do this? How hard is it to write out the full name? I know many people celebrate a secularized Christmas, but some people do treat it as a religious, holy day. To refer to a holy day in shorthand–especially shorthand that obliterates the central figure of the day–is disrespectful IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/12 "2003-12-11T00:31:13Z")
Mm, Festivus. Now I have to go to the grocery store and see if Ben & Jerry’s re-released that delicious gingery ice cream. Oh, and **monstro** , IIRC the “X” is an old representation for the cross, and did not spring so much from disrespect as from general laziness on the parts of all who write Christmas in that fashion. Anyway. Blessed Yule, all. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/13 "2003-12-11T00:46:41Z")
You seriously want to know why the biggest capitalist economy in the World downplays Christ at Christmas? OK, first this occasion is a tremendous marketing opportunity. It is much bigger than Mother’s day, for example. It is traditional (an unbeatable concept for retailers) to send Xmas cards to all your friends and relatives, presents to family and close friends - and all children expect presents (the most wonderful thing a toy company can hear). Plus there are specific ideas for both decorating your home and having a special meal. Everybody (companies) wins! Now let’s have a look at the birthday boy. He tells us that it is **incredibly** difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Not good news for those luxury purchases. He throws the money-lenders out of the temple. Not good for credit card companies. He expects consumers to spend valuable shopping time in Churches, not in malls. Well you can see how the emphasis will shift… ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/14 "2003-12-11T00:53:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > I admit that it peeves me when people “x” out Christ in “Christmas”. Why do they do this? How hard is it to write out the full name? I know many people celebrate a secularized Christmas, but some people do treat it as a religious, holy day. To refer to a holy day in shorthand–especially shorthand that obliterates the central figure of the day–is disrespectful IMHO. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SisterCoyote_ > Oh, and **monstro** , IIRC the “X” is an old representation for the cross, and did not spring so much from disrespect as from general laziness on the parts of all who write Christmas in that fashion. [Available from snopes](http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/xmasabbr.asp). Italics mine, **SisterCoyote** : > [@](#): > > The X abbreviation of ‘Xmas’ for ‘Christmas’ is neither modern nor disrespectful. The notion that it is a new and vulgar representation of the word ‘Christmas’ seems to stem from _the erroneous belief that the letter ‘X’ is used to stand for the word ‘Christ’ because of its resemblance to a cross_, or that the abbreviation was deliberately concocted “to take the ‘Christ’ out of Christmas.” Actually, this usage is nearly as old as Christianity itself, and its origins lie in the fact that the first letter in the Greek word for ‘Christ’ is ‘chi,’ and the Greek letter ‘chi’ is represented by a symbol similar to the letter ‘X’ in the modern Roman alphabet. Hence ‘Xmas’ is indeed perfectly legitimate abbreviation for the word ‘Christmas’ (just as ‘Xian’ is also sometimes used as an abbreviation of the word ‘Christian’). > > None of this means that Christians (and others) aren’t justified in feeling slighted when people write ‘Xmas’ rather than ‘Christmas,’ but the point is that the abbreviation was not created specifically for the purpose of demeaning Christ, Christians, Christianity, or Christmas – it’s a very old artifact of a very different language. Hope this helps; have a Merry Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/15 "2003-12-11T01:15:19Z")
BTW In _A Christmas Carol_, after his reclaimation ES, gives to charity, gives a bonus to his employee, GOES TO CHRUCH, and then spends the rest of the day with his family. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/16 "2003-12-11T01:17:53Z")
Having a big celebration around mid-winter has been a European (at least) tradition for a lot longer than Jesus has been around. He was just the latest in a long line of excuses to party. Now we’ve found a new excuse. Sorry. Don’t let it stop you from celebrating your religious holiday in your homes and churches, though. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/17 "2003-12-11T01:34:17Z")
I did not know that about “xmas”. Thanks for the lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/18 "2003-12-11T01:53:49Z")
What a lame fucking rant. Hey, **Belrix** , it’s become a secular holiday. Deal with it. Stores do not have any obligation to preach a Christian message for you. their only mission is to sell as much shit as possible. You probably buy into that paranoid, asinine, conspiracy theory about “secular forces” trying to eradicate Christianity that zealots like Pat Roberston and Bill O’Reilly always rave about. It’s funny that any move towards open mindedness and tolerance in the public sphere is viewed as an attack on Christianity by conservative fundies (who truly feel, deep down, that we should all have to live in a fundie theocracy). Notice the way the OP tried to belittle Hannukah and Kwanza. After all, they can’t _possibly_ be as significant as Christmas. I got news for you, Belrix. Christmas existed before Christianity. The fact that some Christians have attributed a spurious historical significance to an age old celebration does not mean that anyone else has any obligation to play along with it. If you want to think about Jesus during the holiday nobody is stopping you. So what do you care what fucking Walmart things. Happy Solstice. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/19 "2003-12-11T02:06:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > **I’m personally sick of people trebling their electric bill with a thousand blinking light bulbs hanging off their eves . . .** . . . But it makes me look so _festive!_ ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/20 "2003-12-11T02:15:58Z")
Isn’t it a bit late to rate about the secularization of Christmas now, seeing as how this was the case back when my father was growing up? (BTW: Yes, they do, but there’s always a risk of electroshock, so I’d take those off before you join your file.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225.md?page=2)