# American media & businesses say, "Jesus Who?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225 "2003-12-10T23:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/101 "2003-12-11T20:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*…" But most are theologically conservative enough to make Vanilla seem like a Unitarian. 😉 > > \*\* Are you saying I’m conservative? ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/102 "2003-12-11T20:55:52Z")
Are you saying you’re not? Theologically, that is. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/103 "2003-12-11T20:57:46Z")
you may have a point. But youre right, culturally I am not conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Rib\_Eye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Rib\_Eye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rib_Eye)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/104 "2003-12-11T21:03:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Upside\_Down\_Amber \* > \*\*As much as **Belrix** may want this time of year to be about Jesus, it’s not. It’s about light, wherever we find it. Christians’ light comes from Jesus, and for a while there, Christians ruled the “civilized world”, therefore, they commandeered the season. Thankfully, with the intellectual advances of inclusiveness and multiculturalism, the rest of the world is getting it back. So learn to share. The rest of us did back in grade school. \*\* Amen!😛 The true reason for the season is not the son, but the Sun! (or lack thereof) And with regard to Festivus: True it has its earliest origins with Frank Constanza, but those fans of the NFL know that when Festivus rolls around that the Baltimore Ravens are headed to the playoffs! (In thier 2000 Superbowl (Festivus Maximus) run Coach Billick forbade use of the word “playoffs” for fear of a Jinx. Seinfeld fan Edwin Mulitalo suggest Festivus as a euphimism and it stuck.) So get out your purple, people. The Ravens rule! ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/105 "2003-12-11T21:18:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Belrix_ > **Derleth If I was a Christian in a Moslem society, I’d not be concerned how much Allah was in Ramadan. Frankly, I don’t have a horse in that race. I would be concerned, though, that my fellow Christians remembered that the holiday was not supposed to be about Santa Claus.** So in other words, you’d only hector Christians about the secularization of the holiday? Well, that’s a beginning. It’s also at odds with this thread. You must remember one thing: We aren’t all Christians here. I, for example, am not. I am an atheist. I’m not evangelical by any stretch, but I’m also not willing to stand by and let someone try to shove his faith down my throat. I hope you empathize with me, and allow me to celebrate a completely secular Christmas without `reminding' me about the `correct’ way to do things. As for your willingness to hector Christians: That, too, is rude. Even within the Christian faith, there are people who have heterodox views. Some Christians don’t celebrate Christmas at all. Would you annoy them about their lack of observance? Some Christians celebrate it as I do, as a secular holiday that is divorced from religious significance. Wouldn’t it be rude of you to force your beliefs on them? So, I ask again: If you were, indeed, a Christian living in a Muslim-majority nation, and a Muslim friend or co-worker was hectoring you on how to properly celebrate the winter holday, would it not grate on you? Would you not wish for the simple ability to do your own thing without annoyance? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/106 "2003-12-11T21:20:07Z")
This is one of the reasons why I left Christianity-I’m so sick and tired of the exclusiveness of it. Heaven forbid someone believe something different. Heaven forbid everyone NOT shine the spotlight on YOUR beliefs. And finally, I’m sick of the stupid Christians getting all the attention. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/107 "2003-12-11T21:21:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*you may have a point. > But youre right, culturally I am not conservative. \*\* And I meant it only theologically. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/108 "2003-12-11T21:24:30Z")
> [@](#): > > First, I can’t believe there is anyone who doesn’t grant that there is such a thing as African-American culture in this country. “The dozens,” chitlins, big hats in church, baked macaroni, bridge whist, home training, "dappin’, " and “double dutch” are just a few of the universe of cultural signifiers that have meaning for African Americans. Dang, I cain’t beliebe y’all fugot **grits** and **watermelon**. [sub]Do all black people know each other? Inquiring minds want to know[/sub] Lighten up folks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![White\_Ink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@White\_Ink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Ink)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/109 "2003-12-11T22:17:13Z")
This brings me to a question for the Christians participating in this thread… How do you feel about the fact that Church leaders KNOWINGLY hijacked the pagan religious festivals that were already in place for the sole reason of co-opting a competing religion. That is… you KNOW that hallmarks of Yule (the Yule log, special food & drink, presents, holly, evergreens, decorated trees, red & green, lights/candles) have been incorporated into your holiday, along with the date from a Roman holiday were adopted for Christmas. I will admit that this thread pissed me off a little bit because of the underlying assumption that the above referenced things are now the sole provenance of Christians and Christmas. I feel like those traditions are mine, mostly because of my Anglo Saxon heritage, from whence much of the above came, but also because of the spirituality that I practice in relation to the Winter Soltstice. In fact, I felt like _I_ was being denigrated and disenfranchised from my most holy day in the same swipe. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/110 "2003-12-11T22:24:17Z")
> [@](#): > > And finally, I’m sick of the stupid Christians getting all the attention. ```auto Guinastasia Member Registered: Jul 2000 Location: The Jedi Temple Posts: 17747 <-------------------- ;) Making up for it, I see! ``` ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/111 "2003-12-11T22:25:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*This is one of the reasons why I left Christianity-I’m so sick and tired of the exclusiveness of it. > \*\* Heck, **Guinastasia** , you were just hanging out with the _wrong_ Christians. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/112 "2003-12-11T22:31:00Z")
I still think I’ve got it pretty much right. To me, my gripe isn’t about how _other_ people celebrate Christmas. If Mr. Visible wants to watch his mom kill hookers on Christmas, that’s his thing. The fact that I do pretty much nothing on Christmas (and in fact have worked on Christmas day for the last few years) is my thing. (In my case, it’s because I’m pitiful—much the family is back in LA and I’m not—therefore, Christmas sucks for me.) It’s the fact that some people seem to get green around the gills when _somebody else_ says “Christmas,” even though that’s actually the most appropriate and fitting word for what is being described. I guess I’m saying, it’s _Christmas_ we’re talking about here. Some of us have a _Christmas_ tree. That pretty wrap that you put on your presents, the wrap that has Santa on it, or a picture of 3 wise men following a bright light in the sky, that’s _Christmas_ wrap. It’s not a “holiday” tree and it’s not “holiday” wrap, especially if freakin’ says “ **Merry Christmas** ” on it. That’s my main gripe. The unnatural and phoney and _lame_ insistence by some to substitute the word “Holiday” for something that is obviously and specifically _Christmas_. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/113 "2003-12-11T22:31:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PhiloVance \* > **Dang, I cain’t beliebe y’all fugot …** “Y’all” is plural. Noone from the South uses y’all in the singular. That’s one of the surest ways to spot a poseur. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/114 "2003-12-11T22:48:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Do all black people know each other? Inquiring minds want to know. Of course. We’re all brothers and sisters, dontcha know? ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/115 "2003-12-11T22:59:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\*“Y’all” is plural. Noone from the South uses y’all in the singular. That’s one of the surest ways to spot a poseur. \*\* Hokay, wots the singular of y’all, yew? Hey under my username is sez: \*\* Location: Cah-Lee-Forn-Ya!\*\*, er didn’t yew notice? ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/116 "2003-12-11T23:15:42Z")
**yosemitebabe** you rock! Best splaining of the problem I’ve seen. **gwendee** We have the same problem with finding ‘religious’ themed Christmas Cards. This year we bought them early, before they were picked over and managed to find a couple of boxes of either the Nativity scene or the Magi. Another way some friends of ours have handled it is to buy from Christian book stores or the like, either online or in town. I think the problem for me is the unnecessary using of substitutes such as Xmas or holiday for Christmas. It’s like you can’t say the real word, you have to use an euphemism. There’s a lot of that going around: passed away for death, relationship for intercourse, etc. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/117 "2003-12-11T23:42:02Z")
What about [Zagmuk?](http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa122397a.htm) Belrix, the very title of your thread causes it to unravel itself. You’ve effectively plucked the teeth from your own argument by saying essentially secular institutions are being too secular in the month of December. Bah! They’re making money. Most aren’t selling Xmas, they’re selling the “holidays” you’d be hard pressed to find major retailers having “X-Mas” sales in this day and age, not to say it doesn’t exist, but it’s in the minority, to be sure. Old Navys’ job isn’t to espouse YOUR beliefs, its’ job is to sell really cheap clothing at the maximum margin. If you want to be Xian, then do it, do what your boss did, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and keep the sick and infirm company. It’s your job to eschew the status quo, and put the big guy into your December, not ours. Bottom Line, it is a secular society we live in, it is NOT a theocracy (to the dismay of many, i’m sure) and there is plenty of room for everyone, no matter when their religion/holiday/celebration came into being (I can’t remember who made the comments, but that negative hunk about Kwanzaa is daft and ignorant, if you’re going to speak ill of the creators of anything, ya need to START with the xians) moreover, all of them are equally important to those who believe in them. Finally, FWIW, many folks seem to believe that JC wasn’t born on the 25th, and was probably born sometime in the spring or fall [This Link](http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm) will give you more data, but again, if you want to be a good person, and good xian, all at the same time, set that bible down, and simply do right by your fellow man, and most assuredly, whatever God there is, will look favorably on you. Happy Zagmuk! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/118 "2003-12-12T00:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalhoun \* > \*\*Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and we ain’t giving it back!! 😉 \*\* They took the from the Pagans in the first place… Og’s sake, Belrix, you’re being awfully possessive about a day that wasn’t even yours to begin with. If you’re so interested in celebrating your Christ, put his holiday in the season in which he was born and let us have ours back. Christians co-opted our holiday/feasting season. Took it from us…and then tried to turn ours into something nasty. Oh yes, they all sure knew what “joy, hope, and love” was about. :rolleyes: FB ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/119 "2003-12-12T00:14:13Z")
Once again, Xmas is **not** a euphemism for Christmas. It’s an **abbreviation** for Christmas dating back to early Christianity which uses the Greek letter “chi” to mean Christ. The [Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mxmas.html) says it and I believe it. I am going to visit my family for the holidays. Before I go, I will do my holiday shopping, so that I can purchase holiday gifts, which I will wrap in holiday paper. I will not be celebrating Christmas, but I will be sharing in the joy of the season. I believe that the retailers who use the term holiday rather than Christmas are doing so in order to include me and the millions like me who are celebrating without celebrating _Christmas_. Of course you and everyone else who isn’t speaking officially on behalf of a government entity are free to use whatever word you choose. But I prefer the more inclusive terms and if I owned a business, I’d want to address the widest possible audience. ---
**Author:** ![DeaganTheWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DeaganTheWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeaganTheWolf)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225/120 "2003-12-12T01:23:37Z")
To the OP…A polite and Happy Holiday Season “Fuck You”. 1. It’s a holiday that you Christians cobbled together out of other religion’s traditions. 2. Some of us don’t feel like being beat over the head with your idiotic dogma from Halloween to X-mas. 3. Quit yer bitchin’ about not being able to find religious cards. You just TRY and find a decent selection of YULE, or SOLSTICE cards. There is usually only one or two at the most. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-media-businesses-say-jesus-who/218225.md?page=7)