# American missiles fired at Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944 "2017-04-07T02:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/221 "2017-04-07T18:40:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I read that thread. It has no evidence at all, and in fact little debate about "signals’ from Tillerson. Now its a debate about the War Powers act. > > So dont use that thread as a cite, because it’s worthless. Huh? WTF are you talking about? I stated an opinion and pointed out there is a thread that existed that was created to discuss and debate that issue. I make no judgement on the quality of that discussion but my initial read of it did not draw me in as a conversation of much value. It was not a _cite_ dude. Not sure what evidence you’d be looking for either, a recording of Assad stating what his intentions were and why? But whatever. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/222 "2017-04-07T18:44:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Russia did nothing. Doing nothing. Plausible conclusion: Putin has decided that a deal to exploit Russia Northern oil reserves is worth more than a naval base in Syria. A little cooperation at the right moment, those pesky sanctions are removed, and Putin makes a ton of money. Just saw news breaker saying Putin is suspending our “avoid conflict” agreement so…never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/223 "2017-04-07T18:44:31Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **Martin Hyde** , damage assessment since WW2 and since has been typically over optimistic as to damage inflicted on the enemy. The question is not their truthfulness, they might honestly believe what they are saying, the question is their accuracy, it’s very easy to look at a target being hit and see smoke and flames and think “yeah that’s destroyed” when in reality that is only superficial, and I am talking generally not specifics example of last night. There’s a difference between accuracy issues vs what Syria/Russia will say which will almost certainly be a fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/224 "2017-04-07T18:47:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There is an image of a couple of burned-up aircraft (look like SU-22 to me, but the damage is pretty severe, and I’m far from an expert) inside of “hardened aircraft shelters” with what appears to be holes punched in the roof (mangled rebar hanging down). > > Another image of a hardened aircraft shelter with smoke and fire coming out of it, and a third image of what looks like fuel tanks that were destroyed. > > Another couple of pictures with burned-up aircraft inside of shelters, and then some satellite photos showing quite a few smudge-looking burn marks, presumably where TLAMs impacted. The Tweeter gives this summary: Going on from that, If the description you have forwarded is accurate would this attack be enough to act as any sort of deterrent to future gassings? I know that we can only speculate, but given what we know about previous governmental attacks on civilians in Syria, will this attack: 1. Be effective? 2. Need to be repeated X many times to be effective? 3. Be shown to be a worthless gesture that never should have happened? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/225 "2017-04-07T18:48:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I see this a lot, but I’m not clear on what is its basis. I tend to think that it reflects the person’s own dislike of Obama, and them projecting that _other_ people _also_ think poorly of Obama, and therefore their opinion is justified. > > Double irony if the same person has also implied somewhere along the way; “we’re American, we don’t _have_ to care what the rest of the world thinks.” > > Got any evidence that world opinion of the U.S. fell under Obama? That it did so “significantly” ? I didn’t say anything about “opinion”, if I had, I’d say at least in terms of “polling”, the U.S. did better under Obama. Obama sent a message of restrained disengagement in many areas of global conflict, and it’s quite obvious Russia and other powers have exploited that. It’s a major departure from the norm dating back to WWII; even Carter had a more muscular foreign policy, and another Dem President (Clinton) had a more muscular one still. Note that I’m talking about our dealings with other states. The counter point most people who have a pro-Obama partisan bent bring up is our war on terror, which in many aspects Obama was very successful at prosecuting. Unlike Bush he appears to have spent most of his time on that actually focused on terrorist groups instead of nation building or fighting insurgencies against U.S. occupations. But that isn’t really international relations, in traditional IR interactions between America and other states, we largely lost significant strength, prestige, and power (soft power not used erodes, and sets new norms in which American action is calculated as being less.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/226 "2017-04-07T18:49:10Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There’s a difference between accuracy issues vs what Syria/Russia will say which will almost certainly be a fabrication. Not to question the veracity of the Prez and those that surround him, but… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/227 "2017-04-07T18:49:42Z")
If Assad is crazy enough, or desperate enough, then there _are_ no reasonable deterrents. Trouble with being a ruthless dictator, the retirement options are limited. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/228 "2017-04-07T18:52:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not to question the veracity of the Prez and those that surround him, but… You don’t have to trust the word of the Prez (in fact, you’d be wise not to)…there are plenty of other sources out there, some of which you’ve been shown. Martin doesn’t seem to be saying to trust the Prez either there, so it’s kind of a puzzling response by you to what you are quoting there. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/229 "2017-04-07T18:56:05Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You don’t have to trust the word of the Prez (in fact, you’d be wise not to)…there are plenty of other sources out there, some of which you’ve been shown. Martin doesn’t seem to be saying to trust the Prez either there, so it’s kind of a puzzling response by you to what you are quoting there. Czarcasm just wants it to be absolutely understood that he no like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/230 "2017-04-07T18:58:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Czarcasm just wants it to be absolutely understood that he no like Trump. I’m totally on board with that sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/231 "2017-04-07T19:00:15Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I’m theorizing that this is all a ploy to show Chairman Xi that Trump would do the same thing to North Korea if China doesn’t reel them in. It seems unlikely. Military force is a finite resource. The more you use in one region, the less you have available for another region. Deploying our military in Syria makes it less likely we will deploy it in North Korea. Xi has the military background to know this. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/232 "2017-04-07T19:02:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If Assad is crazy enough, or desperate enough, then there _are_ no reasonable deterrents. Trouble with being a ruthless dictator, the retirement options are limited. What makes you think Assad is crazy? Ftr, in the past week he’s killed about 1/3 the civilians in Syria the USA has … ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/233 "2017-04-07T19:05:25Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > How long would it have taken for stealth bombers to get there? Honest question, not trying to be snarky. From the USA at least 6 hours. The top speed of a stealth bomber is about 630 miles per hour. From a base abroad, less time. But this bombers are very expensive, and best suited for heavy work, which hopefully never happens. The cruise missile was the better option by far. So much for the media filed theory that Trump sand Putin are bro’s One can not allow for chemical or bio attacks. Well maybe Obama allowed it, but Trump will not. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/234 "2017-04-07T19:08:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Going on from that, If the description you have forwarded is accurate would this attack be enough to act as any sort of deterrent to future gassings? I know that we can only speculate, but given what we know about previous governmental attacks on civilians in Syria, will this attack: > > 1. Be effective? > 2. Need to be repeated X many times to be effective? > 3. Be shown to be a worthless gesture that never should have happened? There are too many variables and actions still in the future that may influence this. I think Martin Hyde was spot on when he called it “a reasonable gambit.” Can we know for certain that it’ll be 100% effective? No, but it was a reasonable first step with little risk to Americans. Think of it like a parent telling a misbehaving child “I’m going to count to 3”. Well, this was “1”. If the bad behavior stops at “1”, we don’t need to get to 2 or 3. If the fortunes of war turn on Assad again and he starts losing the war badly, I imagine he’d gas anyone and everyone he had to to avoid ending up with a stick shoved up his ass like Gadaffi. If the war continues to go in his favor, there’s a good chance he’ll stick to barrel bombs and mortars that don’t provoke the Americans to blow up his air bases. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/235 "2017-04-07T19:10:00Z")
The sights and sounds of the drums of war being played on cable news bring me back to the early 2000s. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/236 "2017-04-07T19:11:13Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > As others have said, this was an asset strike, not intended to kill any personnel. I’d be surprised if no Syrian personnel at all were killed, and it looks like a few died; but we took precautions precisely because we weren’t looking to kill a bunch of people. Just to echo this, [the missile strikes occurred around 3:45 AM](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39531045) local time. I haven’t seen any indication that the Syrian Air Force regularly conducts night ops, which would greatly reduce the chances of a significant number of Syrian military personnel being killed or wounded as a result of the strike, since it is unlikely that any barracks are directly adjacent to the runway/taxiway or are immediately in the vicinity of any fuel or ammunition depots. [Here](http://www.imagesatintl.com/us-strike-syria/) is the website that the particular Tweet is using as its source for damage estimates and target descriptions. It is significant that the runways and taxiways do not appear to have been hit. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/237 "2017-04-07T19:13:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The sights and sounds of the drums of war being played on cable news bring me back to the early 2000s. What’s the point of having a big cock if you don’t use it. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/238 "2017-04-07T19:14:48Z")
BTW: Susan Rice, in an interview with NPR in Jan, 2017: “Our aim in contemplating the use of force following the use of chemical weapons in August of 2013 was not to intervene in the civil war, not to become involved in the combat between Assad and the opposition, but to deal with the threat of chemical weapons by virtue of the diplomacy that we did with Russia and with the Security Council. **We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile.** ” ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/239 "2017-04-07T19:16:35Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > BTW: Susan Rice, in an interview with NPR in Jan, 2017: > > “Our aim in contemplating the use of force following the use of chemical weapons in August of 2013 was not to intervene in the civil war, not to become involved in the combat between Assad and the opposition, but to deal with the threat of chemical weapons by virtue of the diplomacy that we did with Russia and with the Security Council. **We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile.** ” Just like right now, Putin led the US President right up the garden path. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/240 "2017-04-07T19:17:20Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What’s the point of having a big cock if you don’t use it. Trump wondering why he can’t use nuclear weapons: ‘Then why are we making them? Why do we make them?’ (March 30, 2016) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=13)