# American missiles fired at Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944 "2017-04-07T02:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/241 "2017-04-07T19:18:33Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > BTW: Susan Rice, in an interview with NPR in Jan, 2017: > > “Our aim in contemplating the use of force following the use of chemical weapons in August of 2013 was not to intervene in the civil war, not to become involved in the combat between Assad and the opposition, but to deal with the threat of chemical weapons by virtue of the diplomacy that we did with Russia and with the Security Council. **We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile.** ” I wonder what caused them to take up stockpiling and using it again? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/242 "2017-04-07T19:21:38Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > BTW: Susan Rice, in an interview with NPR in Jan, 2017: > > “Our aim in contemplating the use of force following the use of chemical weapons in August of 2013 was not to intervene in the civil war, not to become involved in the combat between Assad and the opposition, but to deal with the threat of chemical weapons by virtue of the diplomacy that we did with Russia and with the Security Council. **We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile.** ” In no great surprise to me, one of Obama’s deals was less-stellar-than-advertised. In other funny news, [PolitiFact had to retract](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/apr/05/revisiting-obama-track-record-syrias-chemical-weap/) their “mostly true” rating for Kerry’s 2014 claim that “We got ‘100 percent’ of chemical weapons out of Syria”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/243 "2017-04-07T19:23:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I wonder what caused them to take up stockpiling and using it again? What makes you believe they ever stopped stockpiling it? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/244 "2017-04-07T19:25:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **Martin Hyde** , damage assessment since WW2 and since has been typically over optimistic as to damage inflicted on the enemy. The question is not their truthfulness, they might honestly believe what they are saying, the question is their accuracy, it’s very easy to look at a target being hit and see smoke and flames and think “yeah that’s destroyed” when in reality that is only superficial, and I am talking generally not specifics example of last night. Definitely has a history of uncertainty, with a tendency to optimism. But a lot of the worst overestimates are in two general categories: air attacks on field armies (vast inflation of tank kills by a/c is common to WWII, Korea, Kosovo air war etc); and in recent decades especially attacks on structures as proxy attacks on people (insurgents, dictators’ secret police etc) supposed to have been in them, but who turn out not to have been (growing tension with the US might signal a time to work offsite 🙂 ). Those don’t apply as much to attacks on an airfield specifically said not to target personnel (though it might have killed some, and you’d expect the target AF to claim so). Attacks on true strategic targets were also a different ball of wax as often involved uncertainty in enemy ability to rebuild/repair stuff, not just whether it had been hit in the first place, and where various secondary effects could be major. Anyway as other posts have discussed, there’s no way such a small attack as this one would have a profound material effect even against a relatively small power like Syria. It could have a political effect. A recent discussion accused Trump admin of sending signals to Assad that chemical attacks would be fine. The US attack might affect that perception, assuming it was the perception. And beyond that, it was a generally reliable rule in recent years the US was too reluctant to get involved in Syria to actually do anything but talk in response to Assad’s actions. This also calls that into question. Although, good reasons to be reluctant to get more involved remain, the broader limitations on the US public’s appetite for a large scale involvement remain. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/245 "2017-04-07T19:27:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What makes you believe they ever stopped stockpiling it? What makes you believe this hasn’t been produced in the last couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/246 "2017-04-07T19:38:39Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What makes you think Assad is crazy? Ftr, in the past week he’s killed about 1/3 the civilians in Syria the USA has … ‘the USA has…’…what? Killed the other 2/3rds? :dubious: Since it’s For The Record and all, could you at least complete the sentence and maybe provide some citations? Or is this just another of your off the wall drive by posts that really has no point and no meaning? ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/247 "2017-04-07T19:39:38Z")
And not a word from Jon Hunstman, jr? Isn’t he the US ambassador to Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/248 "2017-04-07T19:40:10Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Not Martin, but ‘opinion’ does not equal ‘standing’. Fine… opinion, standing, whatever. What’s the evidence for a significant fall in either? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/249 "2017-04-07T19:42:34Z")
> [@XT](#): > > ‘the USA has…’…what? Killed the other 2/3rds? :dubious: Since it’s For The Record and all, could you at least complete the sentence and maybe provide some citations? Or is this just another of your off the wall drive by posts that really has no point and no meaning? [Do you not keep up with the news?](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-air-strike-mosul-200-civilians-killed-isis-northern-iraq-pentagon-central-command-islamic-state-a7651451.html) > [@](#): > > Over the weekend the US Pentagon has admitted to another air strike in Mosul, which is believed to have killed more than 200 civilians including women and children. Plenty of images online of pregnant women and children as ripped apart flesh, if you care to look. And turn down the abuse, it makes you look infantile. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/250 "2017-04-07T19:42:46Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What makes you believe this hasn’t been produced in the last couple of years. It’s mostly based on [a quote by a defecting Syrian general](http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/middleeast/syria-sarin-chemical-weapons-explainer/) (had to go look this part up) Zaher al-Sakat that had been ordered to use chemical weapons. He said: > [@](#): > > The locations of most of the scientific research centers in Syria and the storage facilities are known and under surveillance, thus, he will give up those centers and facilities for sure without lying. That said, however, Bashar al-Assad will not give up the chemical stockpile ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/251 "2017-04-07T19:44:35Z")
So a guy in the opposition thinks … yeah, great. Thanks. Make sure he gets his monthly stipend in $US. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/252 "2017-04-07T19:46:40Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > What makes you believe this hasn’t been produced in the last couple of years. Wait…are you saying that authoritarian dictators with a track record of using chemical weapons against their populations who have, under UN supervision gotten rid of their WMD stockpiles could…what? Make MORE?? :eek: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/253 "2017-04-07T19:47:26Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > [Do you not keep up with the news?](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-air-strike-mosul-200-civilians-killed-isis-northern-iraq-pentagon-central-command-islamic-state-a7651451.html) Mosul is not in Syria. And the strikes in question there occurred in mid-to-late March, not this week. [QUOTE=up\_the\_junction] What makes you think Assad is crazy? Ftr, in the past week he’s killed about 1/3 the civilians in Syria the USA has … [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/254 "2017-04-07T19:49:08Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > So a guy in the opposition thinks … yeah, great. Thanks. Make sure he gets his monthly stipend in $US. Well, what do you have? What do you base your opinion on? I think you are right, and they did produce more, but at least the poster you asked for what he based his opinion on gave a link to something. Whatchyougotchief? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/255 "2017-04-07T19:50:16Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > So a guy in the opposition thinks … yeah, great. Thanks. Make sure he gets his monthly stipend in $US. There was also [this claim by James Clapper](http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-chemical-weapons-20170406-story.html), but he’s a lying piece of shit, so I don’t really consider him a credible source: > [@](#): > > Yet some officials were skeptical. In February 2016, James R. Clapper, Obama’s Director of National Intelligence, testified to the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee that Syria had not declared its entire chemical weapons program to inspectors. International monitors continued to receive reports of smaller chemical attacks throughout 2016. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/256 "2017-04-07T19:50:42Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > [Do you not keep up with the news?](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-air-strike-mosul-200-civilians-killed-isis-northern-iraq-pentagon-central-command-islamic-state-a7651451.html) > > Plenty of images online of pregnant women and children as ripped apart flesh, if you care to look. > > And turn down the abuse, it makes you look infantile. You know what makes you look so foolish? The first line in your cite: > [@](#): > > US admits it conducted Mosul air strike ‘at location’ where ‘200’ civilians died > > **Iraqi Vice President** called the air strike a ‘humanitarian disaster’ My emphasis. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/257 "2017-04-07T19:51:01Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Mosul is not in Syria. And the strikes in question there occurred in mid-to-late March, not this week. [/QUOTE] The families will be pleased to know that. Besides it’s only 200, give ot take. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/258 "2017-04-07T19:54:55Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > The families will be pleased to know that. Besides it’s only 200, give ot take. [/QUOTE] They will be pleased to know that Mosul is now in Syria as well, I guess. Good grief, keep digging dude. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/259 "2017-04-07T19:55:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There was also [this claim by James Clapper](http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-chemical-weapons-20170406-story.html), but he’s a lying piece of shit, so I don’t really consider him a credible source: You, me, and most of the world. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/260 "2017-04-07T19:57:33Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You, me, and most of the world. So, back to XT’s question, “Well, what do you have? What do you base your opinion on?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=14)