# American missiles fired at Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944 "2017-04-07T02:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/501 "2017-04-11T22:30:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is getting boring, so this may be my last response to you for a while, but can you see the damage in the roof? Hint: it’s that mess of rebar all mangled and sticking out in different directions along the top edge of the photo, somewhat left of center. > > Now take a look at [this photo](http://17909.cdx.c.ooyala.com/pkMXBvYTE6Ba24rQ3UxozATpoJZ13PE-/promo315828251). \*\*Do you see the hole in the roof of that HAS? \*\* > > [Here](http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/04/08/1651446/-Tour-of-the-nonexistant-damage-at-Shayrat-airbase) is a series of photos on the DailyKos showing the damage. In the first one, you can see a double HAS with what appears to be rebar hanging down where the roof was penetrated. In the second image, you’ll see the same HAS with a hole in the roof (it’s the light spot surrounded by dark in the middle of the photo) from before and the third photo shows a really good close-up image of what it looks like when a Tomahawk blasts through the roof of your hardened aircraft shelter. Keep scrolling down and you’ll see another couple of pictures of holes in the roof of the hardened aircraft shelters, including [this one showing daylight through it](https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2861/33778396481_f3b306f3a1_h.jpg). > > In [this tweet](https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/850335328137248768/photo/1), you can see flames shooting out of the hole in the roof of the HAS and another (clearer) view of a double HAS (possibly the same one as before?) with the rebar hanging down from where the roof got smashed by Tomahawks. You mean the one without daylight showing through? ETA: My mistake. I meant the one in post 489. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/502 "2017-04-11T22:31:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is getting boring, so this may be my last response to you for a while… Sorry if I’m boring you, seeing as how you bring such rock solid credibility to your arguments. Like blog posts from a couple of guys in Holland. Solid gold, fer sure. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/503 "2017-04-11T22:32:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You mean the one without daylight showing through? Picky, picky, picky. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/504 "2017-04-11T22:51:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t really dispute their assessment in this case, but weren’t the US, UK, and France all on the same page regarding Iraqi WMDs as well? Well…yeah. Iraq did, in fact, have thing things after all. And used them against their Kurdish population. The dispute though was whether they had them in the run up to the Second Gulf War. They weren’t all on the same page at that point because the data was fuzzy and disputed. In THIS case, however, the only ones really talking about rebels or terrorists trying to do some sort of convoluted false flag operation to bring the US into the fight against Assad are…well, Syria, Russia and Iran. And those who are buying what they are peddling. Everyone else in the international community is pretty much solidly behind the obvious conclusion that Syria did it. There seems to be less vocal support for Russia being involved, though I think most are concluding that they were complicit if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/505 "2017-04-11T23:39:06Z")
Pretty hard to get away from. They made us a deal, and Obama bought it. They would be the guarantors, they would verify the destruction. Had it worked, it would have been an adroit and intelligent diplomatic move. In hindsight, it was a blunder. So it goes. So, Obama made a smart play that didn’t work. If Russia were truly “on board”, had done what they pledged to do, we would likely have a better situation. However brief. Getting at, Syria is such a barb wire horrorshow, even really smart guys fuck up. Obama is a very smart man who is studied and informed, Trump thinks Bismarck is a pastry. Are we given to have great confidence in a rich loudmouth lout? On the basis of his experience, intelligence, and breadth of knowledge? Or is it some native gift, some form of genius he was born with? Signs and wonders foretold his birth? Or is it that thoughtful and intelligent diplomacy has failed, therefore lets try impulsive, useless and dangerous. One maneuver that might work for Trump, sorta kinda. He could bribe Putin. “OK, you lose a Mediterranean naval base, you get the sanctions off, a sweet deal with Exxon, couple other goodies. You get on board, Assad goes away, and everybody is open for business.” Then, after a bit, he can screw him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/506 "2017-04-11T23:56:32Z")
I think reasonable people can disagree about what should have been done wrt Syria and the use of CWs. In this particular case, I think Trump’s actions were smack in the middle of what plenty of well informed people think should be done. Obama would have done the same had Putin not stepped in with his plan. Not sure such an action would fly a second time around. HRC would probably have sent more bombs that way. It’s time to get past “Trump is teh suxor” and evaluate the policy on its face. I would prefer we stayed the hell out, but lots of smart, reasonable people think we did the right thing this time around. And it was rather restrained. We’re not raining bombs down on Assad’s ass everyday now, and it would appear that Mattis is calling the shots. Let’s hope it stays that way. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/507 "2017-04-12T04:24:35Z")
To attack the Syrian government further at this point means the US will be IS and Al Qaeda’s air force. This is problematic since the US is still technically at war with Al Qaeda. Would Clinton have made peace with Al Qaeda, or just kept bombing everyone and/or launched a ground invasion? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/508 "2017-04-12T04:47:57Z")
Clinton advocated establishing a No Fly Zone, for one thing. That’s not ground troops, but it’s a major undertaking and risks engagement with Russia. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/509 "2017-04-12T05:18:21Z")
If by risks with Russia you mean war with them. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/510 "2017-04-12T05:46:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t really dispute their assessment in this case, but weren’t the US, UK, and France all on the same page regarding Iraqi WMDs as well? Yes, to call the US and UK governments reputable sources is .well… I’m at a loss for words, really. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/511 "2017-04-12T06:46:41Z")
Hey, if they aren’t smart enough to recruit their own reliable sources of crucial intelligence, like Curveball, that’s _thei_r lookout, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/512 "2017-04-12T07:19:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think reasonable people can disagree about what should have been done wrt Syria and the use of CWs. In this particular case, I think Trump’s actions were smack in the middle of what plenty of well informed people think should be done. Obama would have done the same had Putin not stepped in with his plan. Not sure such an action would fly a second time around. HRC would probably have sent more bombs that way. > > It’s time to get past “Trump is teh suxor” and evaluate the policy on its face. I would prefer we stayed the hell out, but lots of smart, reasonable people think we did the right thing this time around. And it was rather restrained. We’re not raining bombs down on Assad’s ass everyday now, and it would appear that Mattis is calling the shots. Let’s hope it stays that way. So…now what? Let’s not delude ourselves that Trump in any way had to do with the planning of this. I doubt Trump has a plan for what’s next at breakfast let alone with Syria. It’s all going to be on McMaster and maybe a few other NSC members. Tillerson is a useless fop. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/513 "2017-04-12T07:46:33Z")
I’d just like to say that I love how Mattis’s nickname is “Mad Dog”, and how _Mad Dog and McMaster_ sounds like a mid-1980s detective show starring Daniel Hugh Kelly and Joe Penny. Only on CBS! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/514 "2017-04-12T07:53:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think reasonable people can disagree about what should have been done wrt Syria and the use of CWs. In this particular case, I think Trump’s actions were smack in the middle of what plenty of well informed people think should be done. Obama would have done the same had Putin not stepped in with his plan. Not sure such an action would fly a second time around. HRC would probably have sent more bombs that way. > > It’s time to get past “Trump is teh suxor” and evaluate the policy on its face. I would prefer we stayed the hell out, but lots of smart, reasonable people think we did the right thing this time around. And it was rather restrained. We’re not raining bombs down on Assad’s ass everyday now, and it would appear that Mattis is calling the shots. Let’s hope it stays that way. But as I noted earlier, this act is only sensible if it’s part of a wider policy. And we’ve seen no evidence that any such wider policy exists or is in development. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/515 "2017-04-12T09:05:42Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Yes, to call the US and UK governments reputable sources is .well… I’m at a loss for words, really. You should be as it is a very inane and empty remark. The wide range of observers from the NGOs to 2nd countries all are in agreement. But the "critical"Left thinking of a certain fringe of the Westerners wants to drink up the obvious strained dezinformatsia from the Russians, the enthusiastic open users of the technique… ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/516 "2017-04-12T11:32:41Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > The wide range of observers from the NGOs to 2nd countries all are in agreement. Talk about inane remarks. There has been no investigation, as of yet. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/517 "2017-04-12T12:48:37Z")
> [@XT](#): > > … **In THIS case, however, the only ones really talking about rebels or terrorists trying to do some sort of convoluted false flag operation to bring the US into the fight against Assad are…well, Syria, Russia and Iran**. And those who are buying what they are peddling. Everyone else in the international community is pretty much solidly behind the obvious conclusion that Syria did it. There seems to be less vocal support for Russia being involved, though I think most are concluding that they were complicit if nothing else. (Bolding mine) …Also, our very own **Okrahoma** , for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/518 "2017-04-12T13:07:25Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Talk about inane remarks. > There has been no investigation, as of yet. It is a war zone, what is inane is to think that the idealized investigation is something that will occur in a multi-sided war zone. There is plenty of the evidence from the multiple observers and sources. It takes the extraordinary prejudice and delusion to believe the conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/519 "2017-04-12T13:35:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hey, if they aren’t smart enough to recruit their own reliable sources of crucial intelligence, like Curveball, that’s _thei_r lookout, isn’t it? But they have. He’s known as “Knuckleball”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/520 "2017-04-12T13:44:19Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > There is plenty of the evidence from the multiple observers and sources. Would you mind citing them, then? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=27)