# American missiles fired at Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944 "2017-04-07T02:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/581 "2017-04-14T22:29:35Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > a. this has nothing to do with this thread, and > b. it just puts him in the same ball park as the USA, except he doesn’t kidnap people off the streets and disappear them to third party countries for enhanced interrogation > > You have got to love American’s claiming moral high ground - it’s almost as amusing as when the US President chastises China for its human rights record. That’s a cracker; it takes the rest of the world a couple of days to stop rolling around on the floor. I know, right. America is the worst. Care to share which perfect paradise on earth you post from? And do they welcome American refugees? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/582 "2017-04-14T22:41:19Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > a. this has nothing to do with this thread, and > b. it just puts him in the same ball park as the USA, except he doesn’t kidnap people off the streets and disappear them to third party countries for enhanced interrogation > > You have got to love American’s claiming moral high ground - it’s almost as amusing as when the US President chastises China for its human rights record. That’s a cracker; it takes the rest of the world a couple of days to stop rolling around on the floor. My god that’s some deluded bullshit. This has nothing to do with America’s moral highground. And even if it was, the fact that Syria is the brutal authoritarian regimes that doesn’t need to render it’s torture jobs overseas IS actually a slight moral step down. I mean Syria does kidnap its own citizens off the street and tortures them , including high school age kids. Are you so blinded with America hate that you think Assad is no worse? And I’m a pretty centrist Canadian fyi for any future sneering remarks you may wish to make. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/583 "2017-04-14T23:22:08Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > a. this has nothing to do with this thread, and > b. it just puts him in the same ball park as the USA, except he doesn’t kidnap people off the streets and disappear them to third party countries for enhanced interrogation > > You have got to love American’s claiming moral high ground - it’s almost as amusing as when the US President chastises China for its human rights record. That’s a cracker; it takes the rest of the world a couple of days to stop rolling around on the floor. I take it that you actually have no idea what I was referring to, given the substance of your response. I sense an inclination to blame America rather than admit ignorance of the wrongdoings of another country. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/584 "2017-04-15T08:28:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m pretty sure his only point is, “If it doesn’t make sense to my ethical compass, it isn’t plausible that it happened.” It’s akin to claiming that the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor never happened (or was a false flag,) since it “didn’t make sense” for the Japanese to attack America - why poke a sleeping giant that is much more powerful than you? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/585 "2017-04-15T18:18:21Z")
LOL. Wow. Like, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/586 "2017-04-15T18:43:42Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > LOL. Wow. Like, yeah. That’s the most sensible string of words you’ve posted here thus far. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/587 "2017-04-16T08:04:36Z")
And that’s akin to claiming the attack on Pearl Harbor never happened. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/588 "2017-04-16T08:10:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I take it that you actually have no idea what I was referring to, given the substance of your response. I sense an inclination to blame America rather than admit ignorance of the wrongdoings of another country. You sense wrong. Offering a little context never hurts: the USA kills 200+ civilians in a country thousands of miles away, no one explains and the US President doesn’t apologise for blowing children and pregnant women into small pieces. 90+ civilians die in an attack in Syria and the US President fires 60 missiles into a field. You personally start talking about torture and apparently that tells us about Assad. Contrast with thousands of cases of proven USA torture. That is context. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/589 "2017-04-16T11:48:31Z")
So we have learned that you can not separate a dislike of the Americans for any bad actions from this. (to put the Americans in the same place as the regime Assad in terms of the toture shows an insane level of america hatred and a real derangement). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/590 "2017-04-16T12:04:57Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You sense wrong. Offering a little context never hurts: the USA kills 200+ civilians in a country thousands of miles away, no one explains and the US President doesn’t apologise for blowing children and pregnant women into small pieces. 90+ civilians die in an attack in Syria and the US President fires 60 missiles into a field. > > You personally start talking about torture and apparently that tells us about Assad. Contrast with thousands of cases of proven USA torture. > > That is context. This makes as much sense as Steve Bannon saying something like, Why are any Brits so upset about Trayvon Martin? There was at least one black man killed in the UK last year. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/591 "2017-04-16T12:30:59Z")
Well, at least the comparison isn’t Pearl Harbor this time. I am still leaving the room. Backwards. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/592 "2017-04-16T12:50:04Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Well, at least the comparison isn’t Pearl Harbor this time. I am still leaving the room. Backwards. What the hell are you ever talking about? I realize smug and cryptic is your favourite style of rhetoric but the only one entertained or enlightened by it is you. The rest of us have realized many posts ago that you’ve got nothing to contribute but a delusional festering grudge against America. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/593 "2017-04-16T16:11:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The rest of us have realized many posts ago that you’ve got nothing to contribute but a delusional festering grudge against America. He’s just going to say that Americans are delusional, festering, and grudge-holding, too, so that makes it okay. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/594 "2017-04-16T17:30:17Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > … thousands of cases of proven USA torture. This is probably a futile request, but, can I get a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/595 "2017-04-16T17:30:41Z")
[Excellent article](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/just-what-is-trump-trying-to-do-in-syria-215032) from Politico on Trump’s motives for the attack. As the article makes clear (and I hadn’t realized) this was a pinprick of an attack. The US forewarned the Russians who of course promptly forewarned Assad, as Trump must have known they would. Assad withdrew his most valuable aircraft in plenty of time. > [@](#): > > The fact that Trump chose the least aggressive option available suggests that the principal audience for the strikes was not in Damascus or Moscow, but in the United States. In this reading, the missile strike was an ideal means for the commander in chief to avoid the opprobrium that his predecessor experienced for opting not to strike in 2013 after Assad’s first chemical weapons attack and instead work with Russia to remove Syrian chemical weapons stocks. Given Trump’s compulsive need for adulation and his desire to criticize former President Barack Obama and contrast himself with the 44th president, the strike may have been a foregone conclusion, whatever Trump had said earlier about staying out of Syria. Trump hasn’t shifted an inch on regime change - he isn’t for it. As in all Trump’s actions this whole thing was about the most important person on the planet - Donald J Trump. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/596 "2017-04-16T18:32:38Z")
I didn’t find much good about the article, it read like just a partisan criticism by a pair of former Obama officials, but I am curious about one particular line: > [@](#): > > Just as everyone should have expected, the Russians notified the Syrians, who reportedly moved their most important aircraft elsewhere before the strike. Where was this reported? This is the first I’d heard of the Syrians evacuating aircraft before the strike. Does anyone here know? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/597 "2017-04-16T19:09:52Z")
Every friggin’ time, they start pounding the war drums and our brains go right out the window like a lead frisbee. Is that a peculiarly American trait, or universal? And which is the more depressing? ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/598 "2017-04-17T02:52:44Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You sense wrong. Offering a little context never hurts: the USA kills 200+ civilians in a country thousands of miles away, no one explains and the US President doesn’t apologise for blowing children and pregnant women into small pieces. 90+ civilians die in an attack in Syria and the US President fires 60 missiles into a field. > > You personally start talking about torture and apparently that tells us about Assad. Contrast with thousands of cases of proven USA torture. This is troll logic - a country that has bad things happen in it cannot ever criticize a country where other bad things happen in it (and are often ordered done by key government and military leaders). Nevermind that as far as it seems so far, the people criticizing Assad in this thread are private citizens and not representatives of the U.S. government. I guess even private citizens of a country that has had bad things happen in it cannot ever criticize the leader of a country who has total control of all the actors that have done other bad things in that country? Why, it’s almost as if the leader who has total control of all the actors who have done other bad things has ensured that there is no transparency possible in an attempt to prevent any torture, rape, murder, and deliberate killings of civilians from ever being proven. So, by your logic, one can never criticize an authoritarian or totalitarian regime where independent investigations are impossible to prove crimes by the State against their own people. That’s certainly Assad’s, Russia’s, and Iran’s logic in dismissing previous UN reports against Assad’s war crimes and previous chemical weapon attacks. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/599 "2017-04-17T07:26:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Every friggin’ time, they start pounding the war drums and our brains go right out the window like a lead frisbee. Is that a peculiarly American trait, or universal? > > And which is the more depressing? It’s interesting because Obama tried to change the culture; the USA foreign policy default is to defer to military action. In so doing it achieves the primary goal of those most invested i.e. the military and related departments who advise the President - using the military validates the military. That is their goal, whether it’s the best option in relation to a solution or the USA’s best interests is not the priority. In fact, if the situation escalates, it validates the US military still further. I’m not aware another country does this. > [@ganthet](#): > > This is troll logic - a country that has bad things happen in it cannot ever criticize a country where other bad things happen in it (and are often ordered done by key government and military leaders). Nevermind that as far as it seems so far, the people criticizing Assad in this thread are private citizens and not representatives of the U.S. government. I guess even private citizens of a country that has had bad things happen in it cannot ever criticize the leader of a country who has total control of all the actors that have done other bad things in that country? Dude, you live in a democracy; _the elected leaders act in your name only_. End of. In contrast, Syria is amid a civil war. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/600 "2017-04-17T07:32:22Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Trump hasn’t shifted an inch on regime change - he isn’t for it. As in all Trump’s actions this whole thing was about the most important person on the planet - Donald J Trump. Tbf to the nut job; if he did nothing at all it would have looked terribly weak all around the world - in the face of a direct challenge. So he did the next best thing which was to bomb pretty empty fields and huff and puff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=31)