# American missiles fired at Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944 "2017-04-07T02:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/141 "2017-04-07T15:42:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “…some mechanics were able to evacuate the strike zone beforehand” Sounds to me like you’ve got real info as to who got killed. Care to share? Yeah, this guy up-thread told me “… Russia told the Syrians, and almost everyone on base decided to take a vacation(taking ghod knows what with them as they rushed out the gate).” Not sure where he got his info or if it’s any good though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/142 "2017-04-07T15:43:42Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > How did Barack HUSSEIN Obama’s …“line in the sand”…work ? > > How did that “deal” for Syria to destroy their chemical weapons work ? > > Talk is cheap, takes money to buy whiskey ! IVANA. IVANKA. Sounds suspicious to me-What about you? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/143 "2017-04-07T15:45:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Hillary never seen a war she didn’t like. I can fix that, i have her TA50 all packed and ready to drop ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/144 "2017-04-07T15:51:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, this guy up-thread told me “… Russia told the Syrians, and almost everyone on base decided to take a vacation(taking ghod knows what with them as they rushed out the gate).” Not sure where he got his info or if it’s any good though. And you managed to read that as “…some mechanics were able to evacuate the strike zone beforehand”? According to [this link:](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/donald-trump-launches-us-air-strikes-against-assad-regime-syria/) Using 59 Tomahawk missiles, we managed to kill six soldiers and nine civilians, four of which were children. No word as to whether the civilians or the children were missile mechanics, though. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/145 "2017-04-07T15:53:12Z")
I guess the Syrians are claiming there were [9 killed in the attack](http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/middleeast/us-attacks-syria-live-updates/index.html)…4 of them children. > [@](#): > > 9 killed in US strike, Syrian state media says > > Syrian state media reports that nine people, including four children, were killed in the US airstrike overnight. > > Five people, including three children, were killed in al-Shayrat village near the airbase; four others were killed in the nearby al-Hamrat village, according to SANA. > > The report did not clarify if these nine killed include the initial death toll of six, or if the nine deaths are in addition to the six dead announce by the Army earlier. ETA: Or what Czarcasm said. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/146 "2017-04-07T15:58:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yes and no. Shorter if going as the crow flies, but doing that would have required getting permission to cross the airspace of a number of European countries (also Turkey), or at least give them early warning in order to avoid diplomatic fallout and/or a missile up the keister. Each of which could have refused/warned Assad/delayed the works. > > To avoid that, the B2s would have had to circumnavigate western Europe, over the Sahara and into Syria. That’s a long detour. Unless the B-2s are detectable by NATO radar, the bombers could violate NATO-ally airspace and no one would be the wiser. (When demanded, “Did they violate our airspace?” US DoD could lie to the Turks and say the bombers took the long route around.) And if they \*are \*detectable by radar - even a NATO ally’s radar - then that’s a more troubling concern for Skunk Works than diplomatic niceties. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/147 "2017-04-07T15:59:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So after the Trumpident told the Russians what we were going to do, and Russia told the Syrians, and almost everyone on base decided to take a vacation(taking ghod knows what with them as they rushed out the gate)…after all this, what exactly was accomplished and how many of the low-level peons left behind were killed after all the bombing was over? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > So if I found out when and where the next military strike was going to happen and informed those I knew would inform those we intended to target, you would have no problems with what I did…as long as our missiles hit their intended physical target? It depends on what you considered worth accomplishing at what risk. Where lies the balance of risks and benefits? Smaller gain at smaller risk … The chemical attack was horrific but the fact remains that the 72 reported to have died in it are nothing compared to the daily horror in that country, including to babies dying horribly. In the big picture a small horror of great symbolic value. Its value to Assad was that he thought (because of what Trump and Tillerson were saying) he could do it and message to his opposition that he could do _anything_ and no one will help them or do anything about it. The principle of terror. The value of the response was less how many planes were destroyed or soldiers killed. It was eliminating or at least degrading that message. So do it in a way that decreases the risk of direct conflict with Russia. Where do you measure a measured response to? I’m okay with this one, even if it was only needed because of the Trump team’s initial idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/148 "2017-04-07T15:59:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > What is the legal basis for the president to bomb a sovereign nation without Congressional approval? > > And it’s not as if Congress wouldn’t have approved. Nor was this attack a secret surprise. > > What just happened? Hasn’t this happened numerous times? Desert Fox in 1998 in Iraq, the 1986 raid on Libya, etc. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/149 "2017-04-07T16:00:39Z")
Czarcasm, it’s not clear to me: Are you upset that we killed too many people, or not enough? BTW, my post #136 was a response to your hypothetical in #129. It wasn’t a claim of fact about Syrian mechanics. I may have unintentionally confused you with my snarky comment in #141. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/150 "2017-04-07T16:01:59Z")
> [@Doubticus](#): > > I don’t have actual stats in front of me, but I’ve talked personally with a person who worked on the design of the B-2’s. He said that yes, they were expensive, but compared to missiles they could deliver much more munitions and thus were cheaper to implement. Yes and no. No immediate effect, because 11+ hours to target minimum from their base. So you lose that sudden “Do that again and i will reach out from anywhere at anytime and slap the shit out of you” effect. Has no $ value per say, but it has value. Also, if you lose even one to a lucky AAA battery, thats 2 billion for the plane, X for the munitions, and a US air crew that is as good as dead, even if they parachuted to the ground safely, and i’m sure their families would argue the monetary value of that with you until you died from old age. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/151 "2017-04-07T16:02:04Z")
> [@XT](#): > > There are other sources but just use logic. Unless we gave the Russians a day or so there was no way they could get all the people AND all the planes and equipment out of the way. You keep asking what the point was, and the point was to send a message. We did that by destroying that airfield. Runway, fuel points, infrastructure, planes and equipment. There is zero chance the Russians OR the Syrians got all their stuff out of there before the missiles struck. > > Even a Canadian artist on twitter can see that. 😛 The fact that the USN ships have not been fired at by salvos of missiles is a very good sign that yes infact the Russians did get out. And the latest claim is that 6-9 aircraft depending on source. Even if they are Su-22’s as claimed and not other support aircraft, the Russians have hundreds of those lying around in Siberia and can make up losses, they have been doing that anyway with the SyAAF (and Iraq in 2014). And the air base? Come on. Rapidly repairing airbases to make them functional after and during multiple strikes is old hat any half way decent Air Force. They can have it up running fairly early. You really should stop believing Pentagon press releases, or should have since 2004. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/152 "2017-04-07T16:02:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > … even if it was only needed because of the Trump team’s initial idiocy. What do you mean by this? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/153 "2017-04-07T16:05:01Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Which of Assad’s daughters did Trump kill? None, if they were all at the Syrian equivalent of the White House holding undefined advisory jobs to their father. That’s how governments work these days, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/154 "2017-04-07T16:05:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Hasn’t this happened numerous times? Desert Fox in 1998 in Iraq, the 1986 raid on Libya, etc. Obama’s going-out-the-door Libya raid on January 19th of this year, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/155 "2017-04-07T16:07:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Unless the B-2s are detectable by NATO radar, the bombers could violate NATO-ally airspace and no one would be the wiser. (When demanded, “Did they violate our airspace?” US DoD could lie to the Turks and say the bombers took the long route around.) And if they \*are \*detectable by radar - even a NATO ally’s radar - then that’s a more troubling concern for Skunk Works than diplomatic niceties. It makes them difficult to detect, not invisible. HF and VHF RADARs can track them just fine. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/156 "2017-04-07T16:07:52Z")
> [@Navy\_draftee](#): > > … Barack HUSSEIN Obama’s … Oh goody, we get to do this bullshit again. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/157 "2017-04-07T16:09:09Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I guess the Syrians are claiming there were [9 killed in the attack](http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/middleeast/us-attacks-syria-live-updates/index.html)…4 of them children. > > ETA: Or what Czarcasm said. Hm…something fishy about this though. Doing a Google map search I don’t see how US tomahawks could have missed that badly to hit that village. :dubious: [QUOTE=AK84] The fact that the USN ships have not been fired at by salvos of missiles is a very good sign that yes infact the Russians did get out. And the latest claim is that 6-9 aircraft depending on source. Even if they are Su-22’s as claimed and not other support aircraft, the Russians have hundreds of those lying around in Siberia and can make up losses, they have been doing that anyway with the SyAAF (and Iraq in 2014). And the air base? Come on. Rapidly repairing airbases to make them functional after and during multiple strikes is old hat any half way decent Air Force. They can have it up running fairly early. [/QUOTE] You were the one who seemed to be denying that the strike did anything and that the Syrians got everything as well as everyone out. If you acknowledge that now then that’s fine by me. It’s debatable as to the effect of such a symbolic counter attack, but based on the level of shrieking by Russian, Iranian and Syrian representatives I don’t think THEY are agreeing with you that it was nothing to see here, move along move along. YMMV, but I think it shook them up, which was the idea. I don’t often agree with President Carrot Top, but when I do I…well, feel pretty sick. And I’m not sure I DO agree with this strike. But saying it’s nothing is being in denial. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/158 "2017-04-07T16:09:37Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > There’s actually a surprising amount of pushback amongst his die hards. Not that you still can’t be right; it wouldn’t surprise me for Trump to forget or disregard what his supporters think and want. I gather most of the time, he operates on the assumption that his supporters want what _he_ wants - the greater glory and enrichment of Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/159 "2017-04-07T16:09:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > It makes them difficult to detect, not invisible. HF and VHF RADARs can track them just fine. Yup. The Serbs demonstrated the limititations of “stealth” in vivid detail way back in 1999. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944/160 "2017-04-07T16:11:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Czarcasm, it’s not clear to me: Are you upset that we killed too many people, or not enough? > > BTW, my post #136 was a response to your hypothetical in #129. It wasn’t a claim of fact about Syrian mechanics. I may have unintentionally confused you with my snarky comment in #141. I’m upset that he is using such an obvious “Wag The Dog” antic in an attempt to make people look away from his multiple fuck-ups. Not that I’m accusing this Prez of lying through his teeth at the drop of a hat if he thinks it will get him what he wants, but do we have anything other than his reassurance that the deadly gas to he says made this fiasco necessary came from the base he targeted? _That_ is why we need to know what we destroyed-to see if his public goal and his real goal come within miles of each other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-missiles-fired-at-syria/783944.md?page=9)