American missiles fired at Syria

[Czarcasm]

@Okrahoma

BTW: Susan Rice, in an interview with NPR in Jan, 2017:

“Our aim in contemplating the use of force following the use of chemical weapons in August of 2013 was not to intervene in the civil war, not to become involved in the combat between Assad and the opposition, but to deal with the threat of chemical weapons by virtue of the diplomacy that we did with Russia and with the Security Council. We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile.”

I wonder what caused them to take up stockpiling and using it again?

[HurricaneDitka]

@Okrahoma

BTW: Susan Rice, in an interview with NPR in Jan, 2017:

“Our aim in contemplating the use of force following the use of chemical weapons in August of 2013 was not to intervene in the civil war, not to become involved in the combat between Assad and the opposition, but to deal with the threat of chemical weapons by virtue of the diplomacy that we did with Russia and with the Security Council. We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile.”

In no great surprise to me, one of Obama’s deals was less-stellar-than-advertised. In other funny news, PolitiFact had to retract their “mostly true” rating for Kerry’s 2014 claim that “We got ‘100 percent’ of chemical weapons out of Syria”.

[HurricaneDitka]

@Czarcasm

I wonder what caused them to take up stockpiling and using it again?

What makes you believe they ever stopped stockpiling it?

[Corry_El]

@AK84

Martin Hyde, damage assessment since WW2 and since has been typically over optimistic as to damage inflicted on the enemy. The question is not their truthfulness, they might honestly believe what they are saying, the question is their accuracy, it’s very easy to look at a target being hit and see smoke and flames and think “yeah that’s destroyed” when in reality that is only superficial, and I am talking generally not specifics example of last night.

Definitely has a history of uncertainty, with a tendency to optimism. But a lot of the worst overestimates are in two general categories: air attacks on field armies (vast inflation of tank kills by a/c is common to WWII, Korea, Kosovo air war etc); and in recent decades especially attacks on structures as proxy attacks on people (insurgents, dictators’ secret police etc) supposed to have been in them, but who turn out not to have been (growing tension with the US might signal a time to work offsite ). Those don’t apply as much to attacks on an airfield specifically said not to target personnel (though it might have killed some, and you’d expect the target AF to claim so).

Attacks on true strategic targets were also a different ball of wax as often involved uncertainty in enemy ability to rebuild/repair stuff, not just whether it had been hit in the first place, and where various secondary effects could be major.

Anyway as other posts have discussed, there’s no way such a small attack as this one would have a profound material effect even against a relatively small power like Syria. It could have a political effect. A recent discussion accused Trump admin of sending signals to Assad that chemical attacks would be fine. The US attack might affect that perception, assuming it was the perception. And beyond that, it was a generally reliable rule in recent years the US was too reluctant to get involved in Syria to actually do anything but talk in response to Assad’s actions. This also calls that into question.

Although, good reasons to be reluctant to get more involved remain, the broader limitations on the US public’s appetite for a large scale involvement remain.

[up_the_junction]

@HurricaneDitka

What makes you believe they ever stopped stockpiling it?

What makes you believe this hasn’t been produced in the last couple of years.

[XT]

@up_the_junction

What makes you think Assad is crazy? Ftr, in the past week he’s killed about 1/3 the civilians in Syria the USA has …

‘the USA has…’…what? Killed the other 2/3rds? :dubious: Since it’s For The Record and all, could you at least complete the sentence and maybe provide some citations? Or is this just another of your off the wall drive by posts that really has no point and no meaning?

[harmonicamoon]

And not a word from Jon Hunstman, jr?

Isn’t he the US ambassador to Russia?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@XT

Not Martin, but ‘opinion’ does not equal ‘standing’.

Fine… opinion, standing, whatever. What’s the evidence for a significant fall in either?

[up_the_junction]

@XT

‘the USA has…’…what? Killed the other 2/3rds? :dubious: Since it’s For The Record and all, could you at least complete the sentence and maybe provide some citations? Or is this just another of your off the wall drive by posts that really has no point and no meaning?

Do you not keep up with the news?

Over the weekend the US Pentagon has admitted to another air strike in Mosul, which is believed to have killed more than 200 civilians including women and children.

Plenty of images online of pregnant women and children as ripped apart flesh, if you care to look.

And turn down the abuse, it makes you look infantile.

[HurricaneDitka]

@up_the_junction

What makes you believe this hasn’t been produced in the last couple of years.

It’s mostly based on a quote by a defecting Syrian general (had to go look this part up) Zaher al-Sakat that had been ordered to use chemical weapons. He said:

The locations of most of the scientific research centers in Syria and the storage facilities are known and under surveillance, thus, he will give up those centers and facilities for sure without lying. That said, however, Bashar al-Assad will not give up the chemical stockpile

[up_the_junction]

So a guy in the opposition thinks … yeah, great. Thanks. Make sure he gets his monthly stipend in $US.

[XT]

@up_the_junction

What makes you believe this hasn’t been produced in the last couple of years.

Wait…are you saying that authoritarian dictators with a track record of using chemical weapons against their populations who have, under UN supervision gotten rid of their WMD stockpiles could…what? Make MORE?? :eek:

[ganthet]

@up_the_junction

Do you not keep up with the news?

Mosul is not in Syria. And the strikes in question there occurred in mid-to-late March, not this week.

[QUOTE=up_the_junction]
What makes you think Assad is crazy? Ftr, in the past week he’s killed about 1/3 the civilians in Syria the USA has …
[/quote]

[XT]

@up_the_junction

So a guy in the opposition thinks … yeah, great. Thanks. Make sure he gets his monthly stipend in $US.

Well, what do you have? What do you base your opinion on? I think you are right, and they did produce more, but at least the poster you asked for what he based his opinion on gave a link to something. Whatchyougotchief?

[HurricaneDitka]

@up_the_junction

So a guy in the opposition thinks … yeah, great. Thanks. Make sure he gets his monthly stipend in $US.

There was also this claim by James Clapper, but he’s a lying piece of shit, so I don’t really consider him a credible source:

Yet some officials were skeptical. In February 2016, James R. Clapper, Obama’s Director of National Intelligence, testified to the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee that Syria had not declared its entire chemical weapons program to inspectors. International monitors continued to receive reports of smaller chemical attacks throughout 2016.

[XT]

@up_the_junction

Do you not keep up with the news?

Plenty of images online of pregnant women and children as ripped apart flesh, if you care to look.

And turn down the abuse, it makes you look infantile.

You know what makes you look so foolish? The first line in your cite:

US admits it conducted Mosul air strike ‘at location’ where ‘200’ civilians died

Iraqi Vice President called the air strike a ‘humanitarian disaster’

My emphasis.

[up_the_junction]

@ganthet

Mosul is not in Syria. And the strikes in question there occurred in mid-to-late March, not this week.

[/QUOTE]

The families will be pleased to know that. Besides it’s only 200, give ot take.

[XT]

@up_the_junction

The families will be pleased to know that. Besides it’s only 200, give ot take.
[/QUOTE]

They will be pleased to know that Mosul is now in Syria as well, I guess. Good grief, keep digging dude.

[up_the_junction]

@HurricaneDitka

There was also this claim by James Clapper, but he’s a lying piece of shit, so I don’t really consider him a credible source:

You, me, and most of the world.

[HurricaneDitka]

@up_the_junction

You, me, and most of the world.

So, back to XT’s question, “Well, what do you have? What do you base your opinion on?”