# American Muslim family kicked off AirTran flight for commenting on seat safety **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617 "2009-01-02T18:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/1 "2009-01-02T18:50:35Z")
[CNN story here.](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01/family.grounded/index.html) I guess the bottom line is, American Muslims, if you want to fly in the US, you get in, sit down, shut up, and be grateful you’re not in a concentration camp yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/2 "2009-01-02T18:52:49Z")
Uh, as regrettable as this is, and maybe I’m just blissfully ignorant, has there been any systematic persecution of Muslims like this, or are we seeing a few isolated incidents? Concentration camps? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/3 "2009-01-02T18:55:23Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > [CNN story here.](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01/family.grounded/index.html) > > I guess the bottom line is, American Muslims, if you want to fly in the US, you get in, sit down, shut up, and be grateful you’re not in a concentration camp yet. Isn’t AirTran the old ValuJet? The safest seat with them is on a United plane. What crap. On preview, yeah, the rhetoric is reaching astronomically heroic levels there. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/4 "2009-01-02T18:58:19Z")
Yet another of the many reasons I refuse to fly. Not that it matters, as it’s already been demonstrated that the feds will give my money to the airlines anyay. Bastards, all. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/5 "2009-01-02T19:08:27Z")
I guess the real question is, if the same thing had been said by a family that was not obviously Muslim (the men had the big beards, the women the head scarves), would the reaction have been the same? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/6 "2009-01-02T19:11:07Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Uh, as regrettable as this is, and maybe I’m just blissfully ignorant, has there been any systematic persecution of Muslims like this, or are we seeing a few isolated incidents?\ A few isolated incidents of rampant prejudice is okay with you? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/7 "2009-01-02T19:13:00Z")
Yes. That’s precisely what I said. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/8 "2009-01-02T19:31:59Z")
Odds are this was prejudice and that this would not have occurred if a family that lookedlike the Palins had made the same comment. But while it is not okay it also does not represent a systemic or institutionalized bias or unfair treatment of Muslims. You are surprised that there are individuals who have prejudices and that some are in position to act upon them? C’mon. The fact that there some idiots among us (including some who participate in various threads and have longrunning Pit and GD threads still feeding them) who have all sorts of prejudices does not equal “sit down, shut up, and be grateful you’re not in a concentration camp yet.” Such extreme hyperbole only detracts from the real problems. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/9 "2009-01-02T19:39:59Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > [CNN story here.](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01/family.grounded/index.html) > > I guess the bottom line is, American Muslims, if you want to fly in the US, you get in, sit down, shut up, and be grateful **you’re not in a concentration camp yet**. My bolding. Get real, everybody knows you ride in a train going to a concentration camp. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/10 "2009-01-02T19:51:16Z")
There were TWO air marshals on that flight? What are the odds? Those guys (and gals, I suppose) are spread so thin that most people will never have one on any flight they ever take… There is more than enough stupid in this story to go around- the other passengers, the air marshals, the airline. Only the FBI seems to have acted reasonably. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/11 "2009-01-02T19:52:46Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > [CNN story here.](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/01/family.grounded/index.html) > > I guess the bottom line is, American Muslims, if you want to fly in the US, you get in, sit down, shut up, and be grateful you’re not in a concentration camp yet. How is this different from how every other person has to fly these days? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/12 "2009-01-02T19:54:38Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > How is this different from how every other person has to fly these days? Well, it varies by airline. Some of them have nice long overhead compartments, so you can lie down flat in them, whereas others require you to be folded in half to fit. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/13 "2009-01-02T20:01:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Odds are this was prejudice and that this would not have occurred if a family that lookedlike the Palins had made the same comment. But while it is not okay it also does not represent a systemic or institutionalized bias or unfair treatment of Muslims. You are surprised that there are individuals who have prejudices and that some are in position to act upon them? C’mon. The fact that there some idiots among us (including some who participate in various threads and have longrunning Pit and GD threads still feeding them) who have all sorts of prejudices does not equal “sit down, shut up, and be grateful you’re not in a concentration camp yet.” Such extreme hyperbole only detracts from the real problems. I think that when uniformed security (or whoever) is removing you from the plane, it is institutionalized. The fact that random racists can have the system enforce their fears makes it so. I don’t think the Palins would have been removed based on complaints about their pre-boarding chatter (as if the complaints would have been made in the first place). The flight attendant or whoever probably knew the complaints were bogus, but knew that it was more important to respond to them because of race. Besides … do people still think that anyone could hijack a plane these days short of a majority of terrorists-to-passengers? (And then, what’s really the point?) And yeah … fuck AirTran in general, while we’re at it. These people were done a service from that perspective. What a shitty airline. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/14 "2009-01-02T20:03:50Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I guess the real question is, if the same thing had been said by a family that was not obviously Muslim (the men had the big beards, the women the head scarves), would the reaction have been the same? I think the better question is if the same thing had been said by someone who wasn’t obviously Muslim or suspiciously brown, would the reaction have been the same? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/15 "2009-01-02T20:06:02Z")
The USAirways flight they took cost them twice as much (and their schedule was messed up), so I don’t think they think they were done a service. Will AirTran compensate them for the additional cost? ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/16 "2009-01-02T20:09:32Z")
And what did the people who thought these comments were suspicious think the plan was going to be? These people are looking for the safest seats on the plane. What does that mean in terms of terroristic acts? I mean, does this mean that they were looking for the safest seat for when they A) hijack the plane? B) blow the plane up? C) crash the plane into a building? Seriously, what did the people who were on the plane think these people were going to do once they found the “safest seat?” Was the thought process something like: “OH MY GOD! I overheard them looking for the safest seat! That means they’re going to fly us into a building!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/17 "2009-01-02T20:15:07Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I guess the real question is, if the same thing had been said by a family that was not obviously Muslim (the men had the big beards, the women the head scarves), would the reaction have been the same? I have said that, almost word for word, on the last flight I took from Canada to the U.S. From the Washington Post version of the story: > [@](#): > > Wow, the jets are right next to my window. Although I’m pretty sure I said:“Holy crap! The engines are right under out window!” followed by a discussion about whether we’d heard it was safer to sit at the front of the plane, the back, or over the wing. No one seemed to give a shit, but we are pasty white folks. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/18 "2009-01-02T20:22:36Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I guess the real question is, if the same thing had been said by a family that was not obviously Muslim (the men had the big beards, the women the head scarves), would the reaction have been the same? Of course it wouldn’t have been. Since 9/11 (which was perpetrated by Muslims), I am sure passengers on planes all over the USA are giving Muslims (or people they _think_ are Muslims) the stink eye as soon as they board the plane, let alone hearing them talking about “plane safety”. It’s regrettable, but it’s an aftereffect of the Islamaphobia that swept the nation in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/19 "2009-01-02T20:24:06Z")
I sincerely hope AirTran gets sued by these born-and-raised-in-the-USA Americans and have to pay out a few million bucks as a consequence. The whole story and the clear, despicable racism that precipitated it, turns my stomach. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/20 "2009-01-02T20:24:39Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > Was the thought process something like: “OH MY GOD! I overheard them looking for the safest seat! That means they’re going to fly us into a building!!!” > [@](#): > > “When we were talking, when we turned around, I noticed a couple of girls kind of snapped their heads,” said Sobia Ijaz, Irfan’s wife. “I kind of thought to myself, ‘Oh, you know, maybe they’re going to say something.’ It didn’t occur to me that they were going to make it such a big issue.” Well, there’s your answer. Histrionics and attention-seeking. Might as well tell a mother you don’t want her child screaming through the whole flight and see what happens. Human nature. “I’m a victim, I’m a victim!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617.md?page=2)