# American Muslim family kicked off AirTran flight for commenting on seat safety **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617 "2009-01-02T18:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![eduardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@eduardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eduardo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/201 "2009-01-07T22:10:55Z")
Because it is my personal experience. Because I have colleagues, friends, and rivals who have it in their personal experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/202 "2009-01-07T22:21:42Z")
Well, all righty then. You should consider being a fiction writer. The best of those, it seems to me, have been people with a rich and unusual panoply of life experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/203 "2009-01-07T22:24:38Z")
My personal life experience can beat up your personal life experience. ---
**Author:** ![eduardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@eduardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eduardo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/204 "2009-01-07T22:35:47Z")
The fact of the matter is that the newspapers don’t want a story that begins, “American white-appearing man was removed from a flight today for talking about how Evander Holyfield got his ass whupped. When he became confrontational and irate a warrant check revealed that he had an unpaid parking ticket and was turned over to a neighboring jurisdiction.” There is no fun there. A better story is, “Hardworking American of mideastern descent was wrongfully detained from making his flight today even though he is a doctor, the head of a charity, and midwives puppies in his spare time.” One doesn’t have to work too long safeguarding public safety before one realizes that the press is not about disseminating truth, they are about selling advertisements. One way that happens is to get people to read and become outraged. On a national level and a local level the truth is always a casualty of the press. I am not dogging the press any more than they dog me and my colleagues. I am sure they see what I do as necessary, just as I think that they are a necessary check against the abuse of power, but the fact remains that the press are often wrong and sometimes even (gasp!) deliberately or negligently so. It is part of the game. Agencies that protect the public are by definition institutions. Every story you read in the paper will be about how some institution wronged some individual. That resonates. That sells. That never gets old. I spent a few weeks with an Egyptian colleague last Summer. So here is my challenge – go to any African, mideastern or South Asian nation and have a discussion about the integrity or safety of the airplane while waiting in line. Report back about how you were treated while investigated or detained. It should make for some enlightening reading. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/205 "2009-01-07T22:49:51Z")
> [@eduardo](#): > > So here is my challenge – go to any African, mideastern or South Asian nation and have a discussion about the integrity or safety of the airplane while waiting in line. Report back about how you were treated while investigated or detained. I accept, but only if I can wear my “Mohammed cartoon” t-shirt and pack my rectum tightly with hashish first. ---
**Author:** ![eduardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@eduardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eduardo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/206 "2009-01-07T23:06:38Z")
Infidel uniform and hashish aren’t necessary, but don’t be too surprised if you read that in the paper the next day. One good thing about US newspapers is that they seldom cooperate in framing a suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/207 "2009-01-07T23:14:26Z")
Last time I checked, we’re always hearing stories about schools banning kids for wearing certain types of clothing and such. It’s not exactly “uncommon to hear of”, or what nonsense. But you just keep on telling yourself that. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/208 "2009-01-08T00:21:47Z")
> [@eduardo](#): > > W > > 1. White people are taken off planes for mentioning what action they would take if the plane went down, or for being misunderstood while talking about a boxing match. It happens. It doesn’t get press. Out of curiosity, are these white people then refused service by the airline even after the FBI clears them? Since that element seems to be really fuelling much of the outrage over the incident under discussion in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/209 "2009-01-08T00:48:03Z")
> [@eduardo](#): > > Wow, Strato, beset on all sides and still keeping cool. I call that a class act. Thanks, eduardo. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/210 "2009-01-08T02:53:48Z")
> [@eduardo](#): > > Wow, Strato, beset on all sides and still keeping cool. I call that a class act. > > Let me disabuse some of you who are disgusted of a few notions. > > 1. White people are taken off planes for mentioning what action they would take if the plane went down, or for being misunderstood while talking about a boxing match. It happens. It doesn’t get press. > > 2. In the wake of the Oklahoma bombing anyone buying more than a few bags of fertilizer at a time WILL trigger phone calls about suspicious activity. Even all of these years later. Again, it doesn’t make the news. It won’t win a lawsuit. > > 3. Do you have any idea how many white broncos there were on our roads after OJ had his low speed chase? Do you have any idea how many phone calls they generated days and days and days after the fact? Any clue how hard it is to tell white, black, brown, Christian and Muslim people that the police aren’t looking for white Broncos, and especially not on the other side of the country? > > 4. Ask any white guy who wants to wear a trenchcoat within six blocks of a school. Ask the guy pulled over for having a teddy bear in his front seat a week after a school abduction involving a stuffed toy. Pity any white-appearing guy when a missing black child triggers an Amber Alert. Again, it ain’t snazzy, so it won’t get reported. It happens. Often. > > 5. When the Unabomber’s sketch was released in major newspapers, white guys wearing hoodies and shades triggered phone calls. Sometimes just white guys with curly hair… because he might have changed his shirt! Right. Got it. People get nervous and report anything and everything in the immediate aftermath of disasters or terrorist attacks or shooting sprees. Now, how many people do you think were calling in to report black men driving white Broncos _seven_ years after the OJ chase? > [@](#): > > So here is my challenge – go to any African, mideastern or South Asian nation and have a discussion about the integrity or safety of the airplane while waiting in line. Report back about how you were treated while investigated or detained. I’ve visited a dozen Middle Eastern nations and have yet to meet any security personnel who spoke English. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/211 "2009-01-08T03:13:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’ve visited a dozen Middle Eastern nations and have yet to meet any security personnel who spoke English. You’ve never been to Dubai? ---
**Author:** ![eduardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@eduardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eduardo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/212 "2009-01-08T05:46:24Z")
WTC is not the sole inspiration for fear and anxiety. That singular event happened seven years ago, but that wasn’t the last we heard of jihadism. There have been repeated arrests and convictions of terrorists and fellow travelers since 2001. I can think of arrests in Michigan, NYC, Texas, South Carolina and Florida – that’s just off the top of my head in the last year alone. But hey, this is America, two things we do really well here are outrage and sanctimony. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/213 "2009-01-08T14:13:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay, after yet another vehement defense of his non-Muslim status, he this one time, as an afterthought, recognizes that “this is actually an insult against Muslim-Americans, something that we don’t spend a lot of time talking about. And sometimes I’ve been derelict in pointing that out.” Uh yeah. He was. More than sometimes, most of the time. > > Don’t get me wrong, I am a pragmatic individual. The reality is that there is a lot of anti-Muslim prejudice in this country and making sure that those prejudiced Americans, who still thought he might be a Muslim (perhaps just in the closet) were convinced he was not, was something that he needed to do to win. I wouldn’t have be noble about it and have lost. But yes, his being as he put it, derelict in pointing that out, was an implicit concession to the magnitude of the prejudice. DSeid, you are an idiotic tool. You got your ass completely handed to you, and you try to respond with this weaselly goal-post moving bullshit. I hope from now on no one on the SDMB takes anything you say at face value or ever gives you the benefit of the doubt–whatever you are saying could be just another figment of your fevered imagination that you will then fail to give up when presented with direct evidence to the contrary. Also, if you haven’t seen my posts before, you should know I’m no great defender of Barack Obama or Liberal, so I really am responding to the substance of you being a dumbass and am not using this post as a proxy for the defense of either of them. (I haven’t been reading this thread and I haven’t read any posts after this, so sorry if this has been covered.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/214 "2009-01-08T14:18:48Z")
Oh I’ve seen your posts before **Rand Rover**. That’s why I don’t give a shit what you think. Similarly I’ve seen **Lib** ’s posts before. In _his_ case I have reason to have some respect for his thoughts and opinions which why honestly I feel so dumbfounded and flabbergasted by the vehemence of his response. I still do not understand why he interprets my difference of opinion with him as such a severe and underhanded attack on Obama. But so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/215 "2009-01-08T14:47:36Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > You’ve never been to Dubai? Yes, but only overland. I can tell you the airport staff in Abu Dhabi don’t speak English though; only the airline staff do. > [@eduardo](#): > > WTC is not the sole inspiration for fear and anxiety. That singular event happened seven years ago, but that wasn’t the last we heard of jihadism. There have been repeated arrests and convictions of terrorists and fellow travelers since 2001. I can think of arrests in Michigan, NYC, Texas, South Carolina and Florida – that’s just off the top of my head in the last year alone. > > But hey, this is America, two things we do really well here are outrage and sanctimony. What widely reported arrests and/or convictions are these? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/216 "2009-01-08T15:20:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Similarly I’ve seen **Lib** ’s posts before. In _his_ case I have reason to have some respect for his thoughts and opinions which why honestly I feel so dumbfounded and flabbergasted by the vehemence of his response. I still do not understand why he interprets my difference of opinion with him as such a severe and underhanded attack on Obama. But so be it. It’s as I explained. There’s just no point in it even if it were true, but on top of that it isn’t. I don’t think there is anyone more critical of Obama than I. But I think bigotry is an extremely serious charge. Before leveling it, you should have not just a suspicion or a gut feeling, but a mound of evidence. The man has monumentally critical things to tackle, and sniping at him for something you had perceived way back during the campaign just seems so… petty. Don’t you understand that? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/217 "2009-01-08T16:35:38Z")
If it helps, AirTran says (Source, 880 AM) they paid for the flight they miss and the flight they took. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/218 "2009-01-08T17:02:44Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s as I explained. There’s just no point in it even if it were true, but on top of that it isn’t. I don’t think there is anyone more critical of Obama than I. But I think bigotry is an extremely serious charge. Before leveling it, you should have not just a suspicion or a gut feeling, but a mound of evidence. The man has monumentally critical things to tackle, and sniping at him for something you had perceived way back during the campaign just seems so… petty. Don’t you understand that? But **I didn’t call Obama a bigot!** I barely even really sniped at him. My point was not even really directed at Obama. It was an aside comment of how pervasive Islamophobia is that good people really have little choice but to make concessions to it. Actually more subdued than the aside comment I made when Powell first came out with his endorsement of Obama and (to my ear) used that pulpit to attack Islamophobia strongly. ([post # 36)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=488599&highlight=obama+Islamophobia+powell)Now again, you are entitled to see things differently than I do, and to have experienced the campaign differently than I did. Maybe I imagined all those times of him responding to the “charge” or implication of his being a Muslim with responses that amounted to merely “No, I am a good Christian man” and not much more, and just missed all the many times he took on the clear implicit Islamophobia attached to the charge - I don’t watch Larry King much. But your reaction of calling me a troll (in another thread), a liar (including doing so in GD in an apparently acceptable manner by merely saying that I “made stuff up”), and the extremity of your response throughout, that this mild aside comment buried in an internet backwater somehow threatens Obama’s ability to govern (who knew I had such power?) is surprising to me to say the least. No I don’t understand that. And there’s no more point going in circles about it. I’ll just stay confused as to why you got so pissed off about this. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/219 "2009-01-08T19:33:42Z")
From this outside perspective, I think you guys are closer together than you realize, and arguing past one another. Basically, Obama did as much as is realistically possible for someone in his position to have done to condemn the Islamophobic point of view. **Liberal** is applauding him for maxing out the “realistically possible action” meter (after all, he certainly could have done a lot less; look at McCain). **DSeid** is observing, with sadness, just how low that “maximum on the realistically possible action” meter is. Is that fair? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/220 "2009-01-08T19:45:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > DSeid, you are an idiotic tool. You got your ass completely handed to you, and you try to respond with this weaselly goal-post moving bullshit. I hope from now on no one on the SDMB takes anything you say at face value or ever gives you the benefit of the doubt–whatever you are saying could be just another figment of your fevered imagination that you will then fail to give up when presented with direct evidence to the contrary. > > Also, if you haven’t seen my posts before, you should know I’m no great defender of Barack Obama or Liberal, so I really am responding to the substance of you being a dumbass and am not using this post as a proxy for the defense of either of them. > > (I haven’t been reading this thread and I haven’t read any posts after this, so sorry if this has been covered.) Thanks for re-starting a particularly uninteresting argument that was pretty well settled. Maybe next time, actually read the thread before dropping your pearls on us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617.md?page=12)