# American Muslim family kicked off AirTran flight for commenting on seat safety **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617 "2009-01-02T18:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/101 "2009-01-03T04:14:58Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > That’s the world we currently live in–a world where the bad acts of a few will often result in prejudiced acts toward millions of innocents. Yet rather than fight against it you resign yourself to it. You would limit others’ freedom out of said resignation rather than speak out against such injustice? That’s pretty much where my mind went as soon as I heard about this story (and why I included the concentration camp reference in the OP) - I did nothing when they came for you (because you were a Muslim, and probably guilty of something anyway; if nothing else of being different from me and not believing in my holy Jesus), but now they’re coming for me! > [@stratocaster](#): > > The Islamic fundamentalists, those you correctly identified as the minority, those guys did. {created the need for enhanced security} I disagree emphatically with this. The people of America cried loudly and longly that they didn’t feel safe, and they didn’t care what it took to make them feel safe again, and your politicians have acted on that ridiculous, non-attainable mirage. The cynic in me says the government is more than happy to have scared citizens, because scared citizens are docile citizens (Patriot Acts I and II, anyone?). ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/102 "2009-01-03T04:16:51Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > As pointed out, it’s his biological father. And yes, all of those people are of “Mideastern descent” which is **Stratocaster** ’s sole criterion for having to comport themselves differently than the decent people who don’t blow things up.☹ Don’t forget, I hate blacks and Latinos, too. Didn’t you see _The Tao’s Revenge_’s last post? The straw men abound, thanks for playing along. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/103 "2009-01-03T04:22:56Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I disagree emphatically with this. The people of America cried loudly and longly that they didn’t feel safe, and they didn’t care what it took to make them feel safe again, and your politicians have acted on that ridiculous, non-attainable mirage. The cynic in me says the government is more than happy to have scared citizens, because scared citizens are docile citizens (Patriot Acts I and II, anyone?). Reasonable people can disagree on this, I suppose. But the trigger in any event were the unpleasant fellows flying planes into buildings and trying to explode their shoes in flight and sending out videotapes expressing their commitment to our destruction, do you agree? IOW, this fear wasn’t manufactured out of whole cloth, right? Can we assign a tiny bit of the blame to the guys toppling buildings in Manhattan? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/104 "2009-01-03T04:42:24Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Can we assign a tiny bit of the blame to the guys toppling buildings in Manhattan? Those guys weren’t on the flight. This family was not even of the same nationality or ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/105 "2009-01-03T04:51:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Those guys weren’t on the flight. > > This family was not even of the same nationality or ethnicity. And it’s amazing how white people can do horrific things and then others of the same race or religion or ethnicity are allowed to go about their business without being hassled. It’s just more of the “All of us are unique and should be judged as individuals. All of them are the same and should be judged as a group.” ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/106 "2009-01-03T05:05:27Z")
This thread is squicking me out. At least most racists have the decency to be more subtle. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/107 "2009-01-03T05:18:32Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > This thread is squicking me out. At least most racists have the decency to be more subtle. > ☹ The fact that I’m not even alarmed or surprised depresses the hell out of me. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/108 "2009-01-03T05:24:56Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I think you missed my point. I was suggesting that I wanted to wait for further details before concluding that an injustice has in fact occurred. Assuming their remarks could reasonably have been interpreted as something other than innocuous means any “injustice” is principally the fault of the “bad acts of the few.” None of us enjoy all this enhanced scrutiny and airport security and such, myself included. That family apparently did not create the need for this, but neither did the airline or the pilot or you or me. The Islamic fundamentalists, those you correctly identified as the minority, those guys did. Actually I think you kinda missed my point. I get your position on this particular instance of discrimination, but you said, in essence, that Muslims have to deal with more shit because unfortunately that’s just the way the world is right now. Muslims have to watch what they talk about with their families because that’s just the way the world is right now. You have passively accepted the limitation of others’ freedoms. You can blame terrorism on a handful of Islamic fundamentalists, but you can’t blame a handful of Islamic fundamentalists for racism and discrimination against Muslims. Racism is an individual, irrational choice that every person makes and is responsible for, and when enough individuals make that choice it becomes systemic. No catastrophic world event excuses it. You seem to be classifying it here as some kind of inevitable injustice, when it is in fact a personal choice people make. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/109 "2009-01-03T05:37:37Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > That’s pretty much where my mind went as soon as I heard about this story (and why I included the concentration camp reference in the OP) … And Godwinizing in the op really distracted from your point. Although it does make a new record I think. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/110 "2009-01-03T05:44:46Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And Godwinizing in the op really distracted from your point. Although it does make a new record I think. I don’t think it did - this is what I hoped to discuss. How far do you let systematic racism go before you are talking about concentration camps? Would that make Joe Sixpack comfortable again, if all American Muslims were penned up someplace so they weren’t on his flights, having conversations? ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/111 "2009-01-03T06:51:44Z")
The stupid, it’s blinding. If the passengers really are so concerned, why not let the scary passengers through security once more and let the plane wait a few minutes? I’m not suggesting that this instance even came close to warranting that, but in cases when there is some real concern. Maybe they actually know what a security theater an airport is. In cases such as these, I wish the airliner would book the complainers on a different flight instead of teh scary looking dark people. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/112 "2009-01-03T07:42:37Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Colour me confused but whenever I’ve flown I’ve been given a ticket that tells me where I sit. > > I don’t get to pick and choose Congratulations, you’ve never had to take, say, Ryanair or easyjet. It’s “first get on, first serve.” There’s “groups” for boarding (pay extra, board sooner) but in most airports that gets ignored. Sometimes it felt like the only reason no knives were being flashed was that nobody had one. I’m white enough to be guessed American by border agents in Florida or the US-Mexico border (I’ve had an agent tell me “you should have gone to that other line” before seeing my _maroon_ passport), but brown enough to be frisked an inordinate amount of times if I take a plane further north. And lemme tell you, it’s a pain in the neck. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/113 "2009-01-03T08:24:26Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > And that you ride a bus to go to hell. (Is this seat taken?) 😃 Unless you’re Greek, in which case have a coin handy 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/114 "2009-01-03T09:16:29Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Would it help your argument if I admitted to kicking puppies too? Why in the world would you suppose this? Well these people were singled out for special attention and abuse solely based on race. Is it any different when a cop does it? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/115 "2009-01-03T10:00:01Z")
Thing is, the FBI cleared them (they even complimented the FBI for how the FBI handled it) and the FBI asked the airline to accept them, but the airline still refused. That’s not a safety issue – that’s a bubba issue. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/116 "2009-01-03T10:20:32Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Sorry, I’ll have to accept the horrible shame of being considered close-minded, I guess. To me, it is self-evident why someone of Mideastern descent wondering aloud about where the safest place to be on the plane should an explosion occur is cause for at least “let’s make sure this isn’t a problem” concern, depending upon the nature of the comments. I’m not saying they should be locked up, or not made whole. My advice to people of that heritage, don’t speculate about explosions on an airplane. Some of the fundamentalist ilk in their religion ruined that for them. That sucks–it really does–but that’s the world we currently live in. So, you’d agree with me if I slightly altered your statement, would you? [Quote=Hypothetical] To me, it is self-evident why someone of **American nationality** wondering aloud about where the safest place to be **in a country** should an \*\*invasion \*\*occur is cause for at least “let’s make sure this isn’t a problem” concern, depending upon the nature of the comments. I’m not saying they should be locked up, or not made whole. My advice to people of that nationality, don’t speculate about safety during invasions. Some of the fundamentalist ilk in their government ruined that for them. That sucks–it really does–but that’s the world we currently live in. [/quote] That’s the same sort of broad brush you’re painting with, and if you find one acceptable and the other not, well, I would want to know why. If you find both truly acceptable, however, and would support similar treatment of an American who made a similar innocuous comment about safety during invasions, well, then I have no argument. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/117 "2009-01-03T11:18:28Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > This thread is squicking me out. At least most racists have the decency to be more subtle. > > ☹ I get your point, but try not to include the words ‘racists’ and ‘decency’ in the same sentence. It makes my head whirl a bit. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/118 "2009-01-03T12:24:06Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Thing is, the FBI cleared them (they even complimented the FBI for how the FBI handled it) and the FBI asked the airline to accept them, but the airline still refused. That’s not a safety issue – that’s a bubba issue. Therein lies my main beef with the situation. The airline acted prudently, IMO, given the general nature of what was reported to them. After the FBI cleared them, they should have been accomodated. This whole after-the-fact “we’re so sorry, here, fly home on us for free” probably wouldnt’ve come about had one of the offended mentioned the possibility of a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/119 "2009-01-03T14:03:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Those guys weren’t on the flight. > > This family was not even of the same nationality or ethnicity. Diogenes, now you’re nitpicking. The point wasn’t that those guys were on the flight, it was that their misbehavior created the need for all this security and scrutiny. And I already addressed the nationality issue. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/120 "2009-01-03T14:15:39Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > And it’s amazing how white people can do horrific things and then others of the same race or religion or ethnicity are allowed to go about their business without being hassled. > > It’s just more of the “All of us are unique and should be judged as individuals. All of them are the same and should be judged as a group.” Perhaps you can educate me then. Who were the white-bread, Ward Cleaver types I’m overlooking, who created the need for airline security, the guys who tried to detonate their shoes after boarding, or who flew planes into NY buildings and slashed the throats of stewardesses with box cutters, or who–having successfully destroyed said iconic buildings, killing a few thousand people in the process–sent videotapes out assuring us of their unflagging commitment to our destruction, in case we were worried they might be taking some time off? I missed those guys in the news, maybe you can refresh my memory, unless you’d rather just continue in the uber-PC chorus, rending your garments and gnashing your teeth, wailing over our imminent departure to the concentration camps. If you’re otherwise inclined, you might take notice that there were a few in this thread capable of disagreeing in a calm, reasonable manner. Perhaps that’s not as fun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617.md?page=7)