# American Muslim family kicked off AirTran flight for commenting on seat safety **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617 "2009-01-02T18:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/161 "2009-01-04T18:59:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What he said was that it was an insult to _Muslims_ for people to insinuate that being a Muslim is something bad. You have zero evidence that he ever took being called a Muslim as a personal insult. I say that with confidence because it never happened. Oh c’mom. He took use of his middle name to be a dirty pool tactic because it implied he was Muslim. That was realistic play of the political landscape but it did implicitly accept anti-Islamic prejudices. Please show me where he, during the election season, attacked those prejudices in any way. Colin Powell did; Obama did not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/162 "2009-01-04T19:05:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh c’mom. He took use of his middle name to be a dirty pool tactic because it implied he was Muslim. Cite for Obama doing this? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/163 "2009-01-04T19:10:10Z")
I guess I’m just not paranoid enough. The only fellow passengers I’ve ever paid any attention to are attractive females (will she end up in the seat next to mine?) and small children (will they be in the seat behind me and spend the entire flight kicking the back of my seat, or be sitting near me and scream throughout the flight?). And I think that AirTran handled this poorly. I’ve never flown them before, but I’m less inclined to do so now, knowing that this is how they treat their passengers. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/164 "2009-01-04T19:11:57Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I understand; that’s a separate issue. I’m just explaining why the airline might not put them back on that same flight. Yeah, I did state that incorrectly. I wouldn’t assume that putting them back on the SAME flight would have even been possible, let alone considered, given how much time it probably takes the FBI to check them out. I did mean to reference the issue that the airline refused to fly them at all after they were cleared. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/165 "2009-01-04T19:16:30Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Yeah, I did state that incorrectly. I wouldn’t assume that putting them back on the SAME flight would have even been possible, let alone considered, given how much time it probably takes the FBI to check them out. I did mean to reference the issue that the airline refused to fly them at all after they were cleared. Oh, yeah. The family should have been bumped up to 1st class on the very next flight. They dropped the PR ball on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/166 "2009-01-04T19:17:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh c’mom. He took use of his middle name to be a dirty pool tactic because it implied he was Muslim. That was realistic play of the political landscape but it did implicitly accept anti-Islamic prejudices. Please show me where he, during the election season, attacked those prejudices in any way. Colin Powell did; Obama did not. July 15, 2008, in an interview with Larry King: **KING** : Considering that, though, there’s a lot of e-mails going around. It gets rather terrible. A “Newsweek” poll shows that 12 percent of America believes that you’re a Muslim and 26 believe – 26 percent believe you were raised in a Muslim home – a lot of misinformation. How do you fight that? **OBAMA** : Well, you know, by getting on Larry King and telling everybody I’m a Christian and I wasn’t raised in a Muslim home and I pledge allegiance to the flag and, you know, all the things that have been reported in these e-mails are completely untrue and have been debunked again and again and again. So, hey, all you can do is just tell the truth and trust in the American people that, over time, they’re going to know what the truth is. One last point I want to — I do want to make about these e- mails, though. And I think this has an impact on this “New Yorker” cover. You know, this is actually an insult against Muslim-Americans, something that we don’t spend a lot of time talking about. And sometimes I’ve been derelict in pointing that out. You know, there are wonderful Muslim-Americans all across the country who are doing wonderful things. And for this to be used as sort of an insult or to raise suspicions about me I think is unfortunate. And it’s not what America is all about.[CNN.com - Transcripts](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/15/lkl.01.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/167 "2009-01-04T19:45:51Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I feel bad for him if people, without provocation or cause, treat him and his family as pariahs. And I’ll say yet again, perhaps that’s exactly what did occur. All I’m suggesting–and apparently this is just wild-eyed bigotry–is that a less-than-innocuous comment about explosions on a plane, coming from someone of Mideastern descent, is disquieting; and that I’d like to hear more details. And I honestly don’t believe anyone really thinks that’s so wild, at least when they’re not safely posting on a message board. Tell me, what precisely would be an innocuous comment about explosions on a plane? Wondering where one could sit so as to maximize the chances of survival should one go off seems pretty reasonable to me. > [@tumbleddown](#): > > Or I suppose you’re suggesting differing standards of behavior on Yasmine Bleeth, Shannon Elizabeth, Shakira, Sen. Spencer Abraham, Bobby Rahal, Sen. John Sununu, Congressman Darrell Issa, Ralph Nader, Jamie Farr, Doug Flutie, Kathy Najimy, Casey Kasem, Tony Shalhoub, Marlo Thomas, Benny Hinn, Vince Vaughn, John Zogby, Amy Yasbeck, Steve Jobs, F. Murray Abraham and Catherine Keener? Nitpick: Sununu is no longer a Senator, having been defeated two months ago by former Governor Jean Shaheen. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/168 "2009-01-04T21:17:07Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > If white, brown, yellow or blue guys are behaving in a way that is suspicious of something extremely dangerous, assuming that suspicion is measured against some “reasonable man” standard,\ I think that is where people are differing right there - the “reasonable man” standard. I’ve run into this on other message boards where people share your viewpoint, that a “reaonable man” standard includes being pre-emptively prejudiced against Muslims just in case, based on past actions by extremist militant Muslims. I can see that point, but I don’t agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/169 "2009-01-05T03:49:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > July 15, 2008, in an interview with Larry King: Okay, after yet another vehement defense of his non-Muslim status, he this one time, as an afterthought, recognizes that “this is actually an insult against Muslim-Americans, something that we don’t spend a lot of time talking about. And sometimes I’ve been derelict in pointing that out.” Uh yeah. He was. More than sometimes, most of the time. Don’t get me wrong, I am a pragmatic individual. The reality is that there is a lot of anti-Muslim prejudice in this country and making sure that those prejudiced Americans, who still thought he might be a Muslim (perhaps just in the closet) were convinced he was not, was something that he needed to do to win. I wouldn’t have be noble about it and have lost. But yes, his being as he put it, derelict in pointing that out, was an implicit concession to the magnitude of the prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/170 "2009-01-05T04:13:48Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I think that is where people are differing right there - the “reasonable man” standard. I’ve run into this on other message boards where people share your viewpoint, that a “reaonable man” standard includes being pre-emptively prejudiced against Muslims just in case, based on past actions by extremist militant Muslims. I can see that point, but I don’t agree with it. It’s all about context, though. Only a complete idiot would blow up a plane he was riding on and _then_ make plans for surviving the ensuing crash. There was apparently so little common sense used by the people who complained or reported the family or whatever you call it that they could just as easily have said, “there’s been an explosion in sales of reggaeton records this year,” and been kicked off the plane… ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/171 "2009-01-05T07:51:26Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Unlike brave guys like you, here in message board land. I’m claim it’s brave to be bothered when Muslims discuss the safety of their seats. Now to get scared enough to report them to the authorities? Real cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/172 "2009-01-05T10:25:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay, after yet another vehement defense of his non-Muslim status, he this one time, as an afterthought, recognizes that “this is actually an insult against Muslim-Americans, something that we don’t spend a lot of time talking about. And sometimes I’ve been derelict in pointing that out.” Uh yeah. He was. More than sometimes, most of the time. > > Don’t get me wrong, I am a pragmatic individual. The reality is that there is a lot of anti-Muslim prejudice in this country and making sure that those prejudiced Americans, who still thought he might be a Muslim (perhaps just in the closet) were convinced he was not, was something that he needed to do to win. I wouldn’t have be noble about it and have lost. But yes, his being as he put it, derelict in pointing that out, was an implicit concession to the magnitude of the prejudice. Fuck you. Ignoring what he said. Making up shit he never said. And then weaseling when you were presented exactly what you asked for. Rather than correct your lie about him, you choose to prolong your public idiocy. Again, fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/173 "2009-01-05T12:08:41Z")
**Lib** either you are whooshing me or you’ve lost it. A [WaPo “On Faith” column](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2008/10/powell_rejects_islamophobia.html) said it well, after Powell’s endorsement. (And more precisely than my overstated claim of “never”.) > [@](#): > > Very few in the media will give proper credit to Powell for rejecting prejudice towards Muslims. But of all the bigotries exposed in this election cycle, including racism and sexism, Islamophobia has been the most consistent and unchallenged. > > Now, given today’s political climate, not holding or seeking office makes denouncing Islamophobia a lot easier. Furthermore, it should be noted that Islamophobia is not something that exists only within the Republican Party. After all, the man who has been the target of these so-called smears himself has not issued as strong and direct a rejection as Secretary Powell did this weekend. When Senator Hillary Clinton was battling Senator Obama for the Democratic nomination, she certainly allowed the Obama-is-a-Muslim whispers to continue. Obama has frequently denied the claim that he is a Muslim only by presenting the fact of his Christian faith and not addressing the crucial subtext of the claim: that there is something wrong with being a Muslim. > > With his endorsement coming largely as a result of Obama’s ability to transcend party and race, Secretary Powell has raised the bar for whoever does win this historic election. Politicians of either party have been unwilling to denounce Islamophobia for fear of appearing both weak and willing to ‘pal around’ with ‘terrorists.’ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/174 "2009-01-05T16:39:31Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > But they were Muslim, and that was (for them, not for most Muslims) the foundation of their evil acts. If your argument is that a real terrorist wouldn’t draw attention to his religion, there’s a logic to that. But that doesn’t mean we don’t know someone is Muslim in another circumstance, even if we may not have recognized it then. I’m not aware of any young college guys who, by nature of belonging to that group, committed acts of atrocity that make me nervous when I see them on a plane. So if you want to profile based on what was essentially a disguise, you’re missing the point. Last time I checked, discrimination based on one’s religion was, oh, I dunno, illegal? > [@](#): > > But they were Muslim, and that was (for them, not for most Muslims) the foundation of their evil acts. Did anyone else find this particular comment rather chilling? This type of argument has been used in the past for discrimination against countless groups in the past-Jews, blacks, etc. Do you REALLY want to go there, **Stratocaster**? You’re suggesting we start treating Muslim Americans as second-class citizens, because of the actions of a few fanatics. You sicken me. People like you sicken me. You’re NO DIFFERENT from the people who pushed for Jim Crow laws, on the basis that blacks were more likely to commit crime, or that Jews were greedy, etc. You’re a disgrace to ideals of this nation. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/175 "2009-01-05T17:28:39Z")
I have a freind who is whiter than white (and a Christian, more or less), and he got kicked off and was blocked from ever flying again (on that airline) because he made some stupid jokes about “boy, I guess I can’t say what a BOMB this movie is” and a few other stupid -ass comments. So, you can and will get kicked off a plane no matter what your skin color or religion if you make comments that can be misconstrued. The \*only thing \*that makes this story "news’ is that it happened to a Muslim family, so \*of course \*it must be racism.:rolleyes: If this had happened to a “redneck” from Alabama, it wouldn’t even make the local news. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/176 "2009-01-05T18:00:48Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Perhaps you can educate me then. Who were the white-bread, Ward Cleaver types I’m overlooking, who created the need for airline security, … Well, would that be the Bush admin starting at the top, or the portion of the populace who gladly suffer any inconvenience for the perception of added security? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/177 "2009-01-05T18:28:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have a freind who is whiter than white (and a Christian, more or less), and he got kicked off and was blocked from ever flying again (on that airline) because he made some stupid jokes about “boy, I guess I can’t say what a BOMB this movie is” and a few other stupid -ass comments. > > So, you can and will get kicked off a plane no matter what your skin color or religion if you make comments that can be misconstrued. And the point here is that the standard for what sort of comment can be “misconstrued” is different depending on what your perceived race is. The family in question wasn’t making jokes about bombs. They were having a conversation, amongst themselves, over what was the safest seat in an airplane. The same sort of conversation any other family would have in the same circumstances. I know you’re one of the dumber posters on here, but surely even you can see the difference between the two situtations? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/178 "2009-01-05T23:49:13Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Did anyone else find this particular comment rather chilling? This type of argument has been used in the past for discrimination against countless groups in the past-Jews, blacks, etc. Do you REALLY want to go there, **Stratocaster**? You’re suggesting we start treating Muslim Americans as second-class citizens, because of the actions of a few fanatics. You’re an idiot. Try reading what I actually wrote. > [@](#): > > You sicken me. People like you sicken me. You’re NO DIFFERENT from the people who pushed for Jim Crow laws, on the basis that blacks were more likely to commit crime, or that Jews were greedy, etc. You’re a disgrace to ideals of this nation. And you’re a drama queen. Fuck you, again. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/179 "2009-01-05T23:50:35Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Well, would that be the Bush admin starting at the top, or the portion of the populace who gladly suffer any inconvenience for the perception of added security? Wow, and I didn’t even notice the rest of my post that you conveniently left out. Is my face red–you’re right, it’s Bush, every bit of it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617/180 "2009-01-05T23:57:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Lib** either you are whooshing me or you’ve lost it. Okay, look, here’s the deal. I’ve got nothing against you, and I realize I put the blitzkrieg on you. But fuck. If you know me at all, you know that I’ve spent the last eight years yapping at the leftists for many of their mischaracterizations and misinterpretations of conservative philosophy. I did this partly because the board is so heavily weighted left and there are so few conservative posters, but also I did it because I didn’t like hearing crap like the fight over how many minutes Bush sat with the children in the school. Between running from the room screaming “We’re under attack!” and ignoring the whole thing until the end of the school day, I think there’s a lot of room for reasonable people to react reasonably timely. Whether three minutes is fine or too quick, whether ten minutes is fine or too quick — who’s to say? I thought it was a stupid thing to berate Bush about. Same same for how he pronounced “nuclear”. And now, here we are. The right has begun to misrepresent and even misquote Obama. When I see it, I’m going to jump all over it like stink on a monkey. The notion that he does not recognize or has effectively ignored the plight of people who are targets of persecution and prejudice is absolutely fucking insane in its conception. That ain’t gonna fly. He spoke out in a very important interview that was broadcast to an international audience in nearly a hundred countries. Did he grab a bullhorn every time a camera appeared and cry out that Mulsims are good people? No. Just like the Bush thing, there is plently of room for reasonable people to do something right while each does a different thing. He brought it up when he thought the most people would hear it. And incidentally, it wasn’t the only time, trust me. I hope that clears things up for you. I’m sorry I jumped on you, but you have an opportunity to break the cycle. If not you, who? Just start being fair, and realize that this man is not your enemy. If you fuck up what he’s trying to do for us, you fuck up everybody. Same same as with the left when they did it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-muslim-family-kicked-off-airtran-flight-for-commenting-on-seat-safety/479617.md?page=10)