American nurses - why do they look like crap?

The BBQ Pit
61

I’d love to see a cite for this assertion. Do you seriously believe that every last nurse in the US has thoroughly considered, and then rejected, personal appearance as an important criterion in deciding what apparel to wear for the job?

Yes, you can point out that most nurses consciously decide to wear scrubs, but “I wish to wear clothing that provides an acceptable degree of comfort on the job” is a far cry from “I wish to wear clothes that do nothing to enhance my personal appearance on the job”.

62

An auto mechanic in a dull blue shirt with a nametag sewed on over the left breast covered in motor oil, grease, and other assorted grit … looks better than a nurse? The mechanic dresses for the environment. The nurse dresses for the environment. The corporate executive dresses for the environment.

I wonder if you also miss the days when people dressed up to get on a plane - nowadays, people are getting on airplanes wearing jeans! JEANS!

I think your point would have been better served had you left nursing out of it and simply lamented the changing clothing style of people in general. Many people would still disagree, but I suspect that you’d have far more support had you chosen your battle wisely.

63

Speaking as someone who sees patients in a clinic - you realize, I hope, that in most cases you’re just adding to the problem when you do this. I know that doctors are late too, but everyone who’s late adds to the troubles of a busy clinic. Clinics can do things to encourage promptness in various ways - and on the patient end of things, I know of some that consider your appointment missed if you’re 15 minutes late, charge you a small fee, and reschedule you. Mind you, they also work with their physicians and staff to be sure they are prompt as well, whenever possible.

Oh, and in my job I wear a white lab coat. This was suggested by the doctors I work for so that I get more respect when I deal with patients - and it’s also because I’m not in a position where I’d wear scrubs at all, so I can’t put those on. White lab coats get filthy quickly, even when you’re not in a position where you deal with bodily fluids often, like with my job. It’s a pain in the ass to deal with the lab coat, try to keep it clean, and launder it. I assume that your nice clothes aren’t white, all-polyester, and starched?

64

My points have been
(1) Even if comfortable clothes are necessary, there are comfortable clothes that look better than scrubs. Heck, it’s simple matter of a shirt and pants. You can’t do better than scrubs?
(2) I propose that the preference for scrubs, which I had earlier assumed was due to ignoring appearance over utility, has actually more to do with appearance than people would like to admit. This is merely a hypothesis at this stage.

and now

(3) That previous generations chose a greater emphasis on appearance in addition to their emphasis on practicality is evidence that the notion that scrubs are better simply because they are more comfortable should not be accepted immediately at face value.

Your earlier remarks about the 30s seemed to me as if you gave no consideration to the possibility that they also had reasons for doing things they way they did, which is typical of a superior view. If that was wrong, I apologize.

But we are not necessarily superior in every way to previous generations because we do happen to be technically superior in some ways. The question of what-to-wear hasn’t changed for thousands of years and there is no reason to consider ourselves necessarily any wiser than other generations on this particular question.

Sometimes change is not progress. When an issue has not changed for millenia, it is perfectly reasonable to consider what previous generations did and why.

65

**

In every doctor’s office where I’ve ever been a patient, the nursing staff have looked very professional in their scrubs. Their hair and makeup (if makeup was worn) were nice, their scrubs were clean, their shoes were at least clean, if not new, and their shoes were appropriate to their jobs.

Also, consider this. If you were in a special setting, like a doctor’s office, wouldn’t you want to be able to tell the clinical (i.e. nursing) staff from the receptionist and billing people? That’s part of the reason these nurses wear scrubs: So they are distinguishable from the people who don’t treat patients.

And I disagree with you. Most of the women I know are about my age (thirtysomething). When we dress for work, we’re dressed appropriately. Even on the days when I wear sweats to work, they’re neat and clean. The t-shirt matches the pants. My socks are clean, and my running shoes are in good condition. In other words, the clothes themselves aren’t what makes a person look sloppy, it’s how the person wears them.

Bullshit. Skirts are NOT always appropriate. Have you ever worked an eight-plus-hour shift on your feet, lifting patients, moving equipment around, running from place to place (I do not kid. Last year, when I was in hospital, several nurses were called to attend to a mother and baby in trouble. They did not walk, they RAN. Fast.) and reaching up for things on shelves? Nurses may do all of these things and more in a typical shift. Skirts do not allow nurses modesty or comfort.

Next time, you might want to make sure it’s your mouth talking, and not your arse.

Robin

66

It’s not a comfort issue. It’s a cleanliness issue.

I used to work in a veterinary research lab and frequently wore scrubs. A collared shirt and wool pants was great if all I’m doing was working on cell culture, PCR, or sequencing - a simple lab coat was more than sufficient. However, if it was a day that I had to work with the animals you better be damned sure I was going to wear scrubs. The first time an over excited pointer pisses on your nice shirt will convince you that something you can change quickly is the way to go.

Now, nurses have to be even more clean, for the bodily fluids spilled on them may actually carry human diseases. With the volume of patient care that they provide they may have to change scrubs several times a day, and that’s why they wear them. There is no way that the hospital is going to stock several nice dresses with little spiffy caps for each staff member for each shift. The uniforms have to be washed every day - and sometimes more than once a day. Utilitarian is definately the way to go. Function above form.

That said, there is something I absolutely hate about scrubs. The damn things are almost always v-necks. Now I know crew necks can stretch with the frequent changing as is required of the clothing, but the v-necks they put on the damn things are ridiculously huge. The necks seemed to stretch halfway down my chest. I never really felt covered in 'em. I’m a guy, so modesty wasn’t an issue; I just didn’t want anything to come in contact with my bare skin.

67

If you don’t see how this remark is the perfect example to support my points, I don’t know what else to say.

Yes, I have. Including the lifting patients part.

This is not a matter of theorizing, MsRobyn. People have in fact done all these things, and more, wearing skirts. For instance, there are cultures in the middle east today where the men wear those nightshirt-looking clothes, effectively a skirt, and think nothing of it. Skirts are neither better than or worse than pants. It is purely a question of fashion, and prejudice.

Keep in mind, I am not maintaining nurses should return to skirts. I don’t give a damn about that. But I reject any nonsense about skirts not being as practical as pants. (But I happen to be in the mood for this maybe because I just watched Rob Roy last night.)

68

If people today don’t care about how they look, why is there such interest in makeovers and surgical enhancements and nail salons and gyms and day spas? Seems to me, there are a lot of people who choose to spend their discretionary cash and spare time enhancing their appearances.

My teenage daughter is very particular about her appearance - what goes with what, color and accessory coordination, how to wear her hair. Some of her friends moreso than she, because she doesn’t care about brand names as much as some others.

As far as the comfort of skirts - sorry, you can’t compare a skirt to a pair of jeans. The need for hose and appropriate shoes, the concern about sitting and reaching and bending and getting in and out of a car - nope, no way a skirt is comfortable to me. Last time I wore one was for a funeral. In any other situation, they’re a bother.

But if you want to wear one, have a ball. Far be it from me to judge you by your wardrobe.

69

Ah, now we get to the crux of the matter. Our Francis apparently does have experience in the field of medicine.

So, let’s cut to the chase, Francis old boy. In your work in the medical field, have you exclusively worn nurse’s whites, and have you found them every bit as practical as scrubs?

70

First of all, you’ve probably never done any of those things in a skirt. Second of all, you were the one insisting there was nothing wrong with nurses wearing a skirt. I merely pointed out that there was. (Note: I’m a woman, and I’ve worn skirts of all kinds my entire life while doing all kinds of tasks, so I’m speaking from experience, and I have also worked in various clinical settings, so I’ve watched what nurses and other clinical personnel do. I’ve even had to help.)

Originally posted by Francis E Dec

**

Yeah. Yourfashion and your prejudice.

Grow a vagina, or better yet, spend a day doing what a nurse does while wearing a skirt. You’ll change your tune rather fast.

Robin

71

If you are feeling like a non-person and you are consistenly being seen late, then perhaps you ought to find another doctor.

I am female, and frequently wear skirts–often casual skirts worn without hose and with comfortable shoes. They are very comfortable and appropriate for most of my everyday situations, and I’m sure they are comfortable for most of the everyday situations of the Middle Eastern guys too.

But if I ever have any sort of reasonably heavy physical work to do, from housecleaning, to gardening, to schlepping heavy boxes, I wear pants. In those cases, skirts can be impractical, imnmodest, or even unsafe. Even women who always wear skirts, like some orthodox Jewish women, will often layer pants or shorts under their skirt.

Just because something can be done in a skirt doesn’t mean that it should.

72

If you do this in my clinic, you’ll be asked to re-schedule your appointment.

I wear scrubs to work (with my white coat) when I’m on call. (Actually, I wear scrub pants and a solid-colored T-shirt, which is the MD fashion at our hospital for some reason.) If I’m going to be working for 30 hours straight, catching sleep when I can in between floor calls and codes, damn if I’m going to do it in a tie. (I only wear a tie anymore when I’m in clinic–it seems to get in my way a lot when I’m trying to do procedures, etc., in the hospital.)

As for nurses, I can’t imagine why they’d want to wear the full white-dress-and-little-hat regalia rather than scrubs. While the traditional outfit might start out looking better, it’s a look that takes effort to maintain over a 12+ hour shift, and that’s effort that could be put toward patient care. I’d much rather have the nurses working with me–or taking care of me–spending more time doing their job instead of fussing with their hair or their hose.

(Besides, I’m thinking of about half a dozen nurses in our ER alone who look not only professional, but fine in scrubs, and if you could look at them in their work outfits and say they look like crap, I’d ask you to get either your eyes or your head examined. Not to mention my own CrazyCatLady, vet tech extraordinaire, who does it for me in scrubs.)

Dr. J

73

In my eighteen years as a registered professional nurse, I’ve worn both white, dress-style uniforms and scrubs. (I never wore a cap, though I own one; most hospitals in my area were banning the wearing of caps as an infection control issue when I graduated.)

I was a long-term holdout on the uniform issue. I stopped wearing whites when I found I could no longer buy them. I switched myself to scrubs with misgivings…

And found out a few things I’d never noticed.

When I wore a white dress, doctors treated me like a little girl. When I wore scrubs, I got respect as a fellow professional.

When I wore a white dress, patients assumed I was ‘just a nurse’ who didn’t know anything. When I wore scrubs, they actually listened to me.

Many patients with mental status issues - the elderly, the demented, the feverish, the insane, the very young - find the scrubs less threatening. These patients stopped acting afraid of what I might do to them. I stopped getting battered. The patients were more comforted. There was less violence. (Yes, nurses are battered by patients frequently. And we’re not allowed to fight back. More recently, we’re not even allowed to use any kind of restraint. We NEED any psychological advantage we can get with the confused.)

When I dressed like a ‘good little doctor’s handmaid’, I got treated like one. When I dressed like a medical professional - in neat, clean , practical scrubs - I got treated like a medical professional.

I only wish I started wearing scrubs ten years earlier than I did.

Gytha

74

You got that right.

75

Okay, let’s take mens’ skirt-type garments into account – kilts, Middle Eastern robes, etc.

Robes fall well below the knee and are made of flowing, heavy fabric. About as modest as a spacesuit, really. Depending on the length and width of the garment, however, it can become very easy to tangle yourself in your own garment. An ankle-length dress on a nurse would be…well, it wouldn’t be as bad as those little miniskirts, at least, but it’s not as practical as some form of slacks.

Kilts. Usually at least below the knee, and there are some very fine-looking and elegant men’s kilts out there, as well as some very, ah, utilitarian ones. Many women find them devastatingly attractive, really. But even a below-the-knees pleated garment drives me nuts, personally. My skirts are always shin-length or lower; anything that ends near my knees makes me feel like I’ve got nothing on at all, and I show the world my underwear when I bend down. And nurses need to do a lot of bending.

As for traditional nurse’s skirts, they are roughly knee-length, IIRC, and STRAIGHT. I can’t even begin to describe what wearing a straight skirt is like. Imagine if your legs were tied together just above the knees – fairly loosely, but quite securely. It’s fine for a business suit, since you don’t have to run around much in one of those, but for any sort of physical exertion…

It’s the same reason athletes don’t wear skirts. Not because it isn’t “pretty”, because it just isn’t practical. Should a nurse be willing to give up a little more comfort for a little less practicality and a little more attractiveness? I want my nurse concerned about me, not her dress.

As for dressing nicely for work, well, I think I’d rather enjoy dressing '40s style. I wear pressed slacks and a blouse to work most days. Today I’m wearing a black dress with brown velvet leaves on it, very pretty. Yesterday, white blouse, black slacks, black waistcoat. Tomorrow, probably much like yesterday (I only have the one dress nice enough for work while not being formal enough to wear to the the-ah-tah). A lot of women will dress as casually as they can get away with because it’s so much more comfortable. Comfortable workers are more efficient.

That being said, I like to wear the nicest clothes I can afford. You may think what you like about the desire women have for comfort, but having worn the business-standard for both genders I can tell you which I find more comfortable!

Oh – and many women would be insane to not wear some sort of shorts or pants or something under a skirt. Talk about uncomfortable. It’s hard to understand,again, unless you have experienced it firsthand.

76

I don’t know about you guys, but GythaOgg has pretty much closed this debate for me. Bravissima!

77

I didn’t want to bring this up, but when I was in coding school, we got some Tales from the Field about hospital personnel in skirts being sexually assaulted by patients. Skirt=female=vulnerable.

Robin

78

Different profession - but I do IT. Years ago, the dress for a female IT professional in a Fortune 500 was a suit and skirt. Above the knee.

Amazing how many more calls we’d get for disconnected LAN cables (which involved me crawling on the floor in my skirt) when my skirt was particularly short. I stopped wearing them when one of the guy’s 'fessed up.

79

What about the present day British nurse uniform? Not a dress/skirt, but still (in my opinion ) smarter than scrubs.

80

alex - throw us a link?