# American parents -- again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 23, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772 "2020-12-23T22:46:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/41 "2020-12-25T01:51:58Z")
Pulled up the story to read more. Jesus, if that ain’t a perfect face for a name like ‘Skylar Mark’, I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/42 "2020-12-25T02:04:35Z")
Is the sentence typical for such an offense in the Cayman Islands, or did they make an example of her and her boyfriend? ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/43 "2020-12-25T02:05:47Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Why no sympathy for Ramgeet? Are his parents and grandmother complaining about his sentence? ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/44 "2020-12-25T02:15:34Z")
My parents told us that if we wouldn’t behave at home, why should they take us anywhere and expect better? In that vein plenty of my countrymen pull all kinds of shit right here and get away with it—why would I think they’ll behave better in a foreign country? By and large I think if you go to another country and break their laws, you get what’s coming to you. They have their own value system, whether Americans agree with it or not, and they create their laws from those values. IANAL but… - You may be presumed guilty until proven innocent. - Some countries make a big example of criminals as a deterrent to others. - They may dispense justice equally…equally severely, that is. - Ignorance of the law isn’t a defense; you might throw yourself on the mercy of the court but it would be best to avoid the risk altogether. > [@BigT](#): > > I’m also not on board with the idea that not hurting anyone should matter in this case, because that’s entirely coincidence. Her actions would be the same whether she killed someone or not, and it is her actions (conspiring to violate quarantine because she doesn’t care about other people) that is the problem. Exactly. This could impact on the public health of others there, making them sick, maybe causing death, forcing some into quarantine, threatening their livelihoods etc. And what about the resources required for contact tracing etc.? But mostly it’s like pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger because you “know” it isn’t loaded? Lame. When in Rome, do as the Romans. That’s not to say that other countries never take the punishment too far. I’d never venture into North Korea, for instance… > **[Otto Warmbier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier)** > > Otto Frederick Warmbier (December 12, 1994 – June 19, 2017) was an American college student who was imprisoned in North Korea in 2016 on a charge of subversion. In June 2017, he was released by North Korea in a vegetative state, and died soon after his parents requested his feeding tube be removed. > Warmbier entered North Korea as part of a guided tour group on December 29, 2015. On January 2, 2016, he was arrested at Pyongyang International Airport while awaiting departure from the country. H... ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/45 "2020-12-25T05:05:47Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I have as much sympathy for him as I do for her, which is not much if any at all. Less, maybe. As a resident he should have known better than she did what the law was and what the penalty was. I disagree. He was already in the Caymans, so he had no particular need to know the rules about incoming travel restrictions and quarantine. She, on the other hand, was traveling to the Caymans, and I’m willing to bet that the rules are very clearly laid out for travelers at every stage of their journey. Anyone who has ever traveled anywhere in the world knows that they need to check travel requirements, and that goes double during the COVID crisis. Indeed, the [Caymans website](https://www.exploregov.ky/faqs/covid-19-travel-process) makes the COVID-era entry requirements very clear: > [@](#): > > When applying for pre-travel approval, travellers must: > > - Either request to participate in the Quarantine at Residence Programme and wear a wristband monitoring device, OR agree to isolate on arrival in a Government sponsored facility OR agree to isolate on arrival at a privately run facility at their own expense for a minimum of 14 days. The preferred option must be declared as part of the application through Travel Cayman. > - All travellers will have a COVID-19 PCR test on day 15. A negative test result is required to leave quarantine. So this woman would have had to fill out a travel application to even be approved in the first place, and that application would have laid out very clearly the requirements for quarantine. I’ll bet they reiterated the rules when she checked in for her flight, on the flight itself before landing, and at the customs and immigration checkpoints at the airport. There are probably also signs all over the airport. And as the story linked by the OP says, “She also signed a document that forbade her from removing her wristband and leaving her residence during the 14-day period.” No excuse at all, resident or not. ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/46 "2020-12-25T08:25:41Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > He was already in the Caymans, so he had no particular need to know the rules about incoming travel restrictions and quarantine. I’m not sure about the Caymans (didn’t want to read the entire site), but for my friend to travel to the Netherlands from Switzerland, he had to provide a statement from his Dutch girlfriend that they are in a long-term relationship. Otherwise he would not be permitted to go, as he is not a resident. Normally I would agree that the resident doesn’t need to know all the details. And in the case of becoming a citizen, I would agree. But in this instance, the boyfriend should have been aware of the requirements and made sure she followed them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/47 "2020-12-25T08:49:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I agree that he’s probably an enabler, but on the other hand, 4 months in a jail for violating a quarantine is excessive - and I say that as someone who advocates a hard line against people violating quarantines. > > A few nights, even a week or two in a country club clink? Fine, I get that. But four months? Excessive. She’s barely an adult. She’s also a pre-med student. You’d _think_ someone interested in a career in medicine would know the importance of quarantine in controlling a pandemic, but no… Fuck her. She went to a foreign country. The rules were explained to her. She deliberately broke them. She needs to pay the penalty. What sickens me most is her parents/grandmother. Their “oh so special” girl - fuck that. She’s a spoiled, privileged young woman who thought the rules didn’t apply to her. They’re spoiled, privileged assholes who think the rules don’t apply to them. After this Year of Covid and working as an essential worker that lead to me getting to suffer through the goddamned virus myself I’m all for slamming health rule violators in jail, starting with mask-holes but not limited to them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/48 "2020-12-25T08:57:16Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Dont get me wromng, I agree she’s an over-entitled, selfish jerk who certainly deserves punishment. But if she’s not covid-positive and difnt infect anyone, a month in a foreign prison is excessive. Fuck that - that’s like saying drunk driving shouldn’t be punished because no one got hurt. Since we can’t easily see who is carrying the virus and who isn’t we have to apply certain rules to EVERYONE. Maskholes who say “I’m not wearing a mask because I’m not sick” are full of shit. You can’t know if you’re shedding virus or not, because you can be doing so without showing symptoms and testing only tells whether or not you were positive at a certain point, and even then, there’s an error rate with tests. So, in fact, we don’t know for sure if she was covid-positive, or if she picked up the virus during her little escapade, if she’s positive now and leaving covid-cooties behind her. Quarantines have to apply to EVERYONE or they don’t work. And, in the end, it doesn’t matter if you think the penalty is excessive or not. The Caymen Islands have their set of laws. If you violate them you receive their punishment, not yours, and not that of your home country. Or would you let someone off with, say, a small fine a probably for having with a 12 year old because that’s legal in their country but we find it utterly appalling, depraved, and criminal? Yes, that’s a bit of an extreme example but this notion so many Americans have that they’re someone still under their home rules and can do whatever the fuck they want in another country is complete and utter bullshit. We expect people who visit our country to follow our rules but we can’t be arsed to return the favor? What a load of horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/49 "2020-12-25T09:39:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > 4 months in a jail for violating a quarantine is excessive Naah, nowhere near excessive _enough_. Not when done with obvious malice aforethought, like in the OP’s case. Personally, I’d give her at least a year. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Hell, here in America you have people doing the same thing and not even being charged, let alone being given a month+ in jail. And how well is that lenient attitude working out for y’all? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/50 "2020-12-25T09:46:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Four months for a single act of simply being human “Simply being human” is forgetting your mask in the car. What this lady did was assholery and reckless endangerment. Which, sure, could be seen as also “simply being human” - but so’s cannibalism and child rape, but you don’t see us excusing those. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/51 "2020-12-25T09:47:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s not valid just b/c the defendant is a rich white girl from America and the jurisdiction says it’s a valid punishment. No, I think they’re trying to get her out of her punishment because she’s a rich white girl from America who, like a lot of other rich, white people in America are spoiled little shits. > [@asahi](#): > > Four months for a single act of simply being human is insane She broke the law. She pays the penalty. It wasn’t like she accidentally fell out of the door of the place she was staying. She deliberately and premediatively removed the tracking bracelet and broke the law. Fuck her. And I hope she loses her slot in her pre-med program because anyone that irresponsible about the health of other people has no business in the medical profession. She can find some other field of endeavor where not giving a shit about others and amorality are assets, like mob accountant. “Her whole life torn away” - god, her father is a tedious asshole. It’s not like she’s going to have a felony on her record. Precious Princess is just going to have to deal with the consequences of her action, like the adult she supposedly is. > [@Deeg](#): > > I think she should do time but I can sort of see where she’s coming from. According to reports I read she got a negative test right after landing. I’m sure she was thinking “I’m negative; what’s the big deal?” Dumb, but understandable. Not in a pre-med student. If she was going into, oh, I dunno, an MBA program maybe but she’s on a track into medicine. Holy fuck, do you want a future doctor saying “what’s the big deal?” about a public health measure during a pandemic? I sure as hell don’t. The best thing for the Precious Princess is to cooling her fucking heels for a month in jail so she really learns the fucking lesson about following the law and personal responsibility. And, oh yes, _the rules apply to her, too_. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > As for her being a pre-med student at 18, it’s been my own experience that at least 95% of the people who start college as a pre-med changes their career plans by the end of their sophomore year And she should be one of them. > [@Hamlet](#): > > Are you advocating for jail sentences for people who don’t wear masks, even just one time? Please. She didn’t just oops and walk out a door one morning forgetting her mask - she was prancing around for 7 hours without one. This wasn’t a mistake. She did this deliberately. And yeah, I’m for harsh penalties for people who fuck up something as simple as wearing a mask. Because I am sick and tired of watching my co-workers get ill and people politicizing a pandemic to the point of deny its existence even as it kills 3000+ people a day in this country. > [@Hamlet](#): > > The mandatory minimum for drunk driving, in most jurisdictions, is maybe 2 days in jail, not 36. I’m all for making it 36. I’ve managed to exist in this world over half a century, and I’ve always managed to avoid mixing alcohol and operating a vehicle. It’s not rocket science. Places where the penalties for drunk driving are a lot steeper than the US have a lot fewer drunk people driving. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I’ve seen a few people here argue that Skylar Mack’s sentence was way too harsh. > > Funny, though, none of them said a word about her boyfriend, Vanjae Ramgeet, a Caymans resident and competitive Jet-Skier (I had no idea there was such a thing). > > Ramgeet received the same sentence (for aiding her), and was stripped of the prize money he’d won in the Jet-Ski competition which Ms. Mack broke quarantine to watch, and, according to the story, banned from some future competitions. > > Why no sympathy for Ramgeet? He’s not a privileged little shit of a white girl from America. Sorry, but that’s how I read that disparity. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/52 "2020-12-25T10:14:31Z")
I do agree that it is quite an achievement to be an internationally famous Karen at 18. I predict great things from this young lady! ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/53 "2020-12-25T11:55:12Z")
I don’t think it’s necessarily racist that people haven’t mentioned Ramgeet. I do think that the pretty blonde American girl is getting more attention. Yes, I know the OP wasn’t about him or his sentence, it was about American parents. That’s kind of my point. Ms. Mack’s parent’s didn’t have a word to say about Ramgeet, or at least not a word that was quoted (that I saw) in the press. That said, I have no reason to think the OP or anyone else in this thread is a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/54 "2020-12-25T12:49:04Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > But if **she’s not covid-positive** and difnt infect anyone, a month in a foreign prison is excessive. …well here’s the thing. The consequences of an outbreak of Covid is deadly serious. Especially if you have limited ICU capacity. Back in April they only had enough ventilators on island to support 36 patients. Beyond that they would have to repurpose anesthesia machines which would give them about an additional 30 patients. It wouldn’t take a lot to overwhelm the healthcare system. And it would only take **a single case** in the community **caught too late** to do just that. You say she wasn’t covid-positive. But at the time she absconded they didn’t know that. The incubation period is about 14 days. In NZ everybody entering the country has to stay in managed isolation for 14 days and they get tested twice: on Day 2 and Day 13. It isn’t uncommon for people to get a negative test on Day 2 but to test positive on Day 13. So what does that mean? That means the authorities have to figure out this persons movements after she left isolation. It means that they have to contact trace the people she interacted with and **then the people that they interacted with** , and they keep going until they identify all possible chains of transmission. Anyone deemed a close contact **would also have to go into 14 days of isolation.** Are you starting to see the scale of the issue now? This really isn’t analogous to a drunk driver because as tragic as a drunk driving incident may be, it really is quite limited in scope. But with a potential outbreak the contact tracing team are always playing catch up. What she (and her boyfriend) did was hugely disruptive and put lives and the healthcare system at risk. Island nations are at much bigger risk of being overwhelmed and we should be doing everything we can to protect them. They need to proactively discourage foolhardy acts like this and I don’t really think the sentence is excessive. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/55 "2020-12-25T13:33:26Z")
Her pre-med status is meaningless. As a former 18 year old pre-med, I had no clue as to what medicine truly was. Hell, half the practicing physicians I work with are still unclear about the difference between “Quarantine” and “Isolation”. But I did understand rules back then. And a 4 month sentence is definitely light for knowingly breaking the rules of quarantine PLUS removing a monitoring device. I’ve seen folks in the US sent to prison for over a year for removing such a device. And where I work, know what we call people who have to serve 4 months of incarceration? Short timers. So, from my perspective as a front line worker who has been exposed to symptomatic covid + patients dozens of times in the last 9 months and gets tested every 2 weeks plus whenever I don’t feel well, she got off lucky with 4 months, and got a gift she didn’t deserve when it was reduced to 2 months. Those that think she was treated too harshly are contributing to the worsening of the pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/56 "2020-12-25T13:35:35Z")
Here’s a part of the calculus that has not yet been brought up in the thread: the Cayman Islands are _islands._ They have greater capacity for controlling incoming population because of their geographic separation, thus greater potential for mitigating the effects of the pandemic, therefore greater incentive for keeping a very tight lid on things. Consider how effective the fierce clampdown in New Zealand turned out to be. This is not like a South Dakota resident got a month in jail for poking her toe over the border into North Dakota. This required lengthy plane travel and awareness of the control program at the point of entry. The Caymans (and any other equivalent island country) are well within the bounds of reason for keeping a tight filter at their borders, and imposing harsh penalties for any attempt to subvert it. Fuck this med student, her boyfriend, and her family. 36 days in jail is the minimum. Deportation afterward plus a permanent ban would be additionally appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/57 "2020-12-25T17:01:12Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Her pre-med status is meaningless. As a former 18 year old pre-med, I had no clue as to what medicine truly was. Hell, half the practicing physicians I work with are still unclear about the difference between “Quarantine” and “Isolation”. But I did understand rules back then. Yeah, weren’t we all idiots at 18? But we learned. And most of us DO understand the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/58 "2020-12-25T17:41:39Z")
I don’t know who you’re pissed at Broomstick, but it seems to be the imaginary person in your head and not me. You sure went to town on those strawmen, though. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/59 "2020-12-25T18:41:22Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Pre-med, huh? Something tells me that medicine just might not be the right field for her. “Pre-med” is just a college code word for “Taking random courses while drinking and partying”. It’s basically bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772/60 "2020-12-25T19:03:40Z")
I didn’t see any strawmen in her post, just your bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-parents-again/928772.md?page=4)