# American Pharoah Wins the Triple Crown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 6, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825 "2015-06-06T23:02:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/1 "2015-06-06T23:02:37Z")
Just what it says ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/2 "2015-06-06T23:35:03Z")
Also, set second fastest time after the late, great Secretariat. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/3 "2015-06-07T00:20:46Z")
But still over two seconds behind. 🙂 I remember back in the 70s when they were complaining about a 24-year triple crown drought and how there might never be another. The three winners in the 70s, and we became a bit blase. Next thing I know, the gap is ever longer than that. But it’s a great day for the sport. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/4 "2015-06-07T00:27:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Also, set second fastest time after the late, great Secretariat. Just a reminder of the original [Big Red, Man O’War](http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/man-o-war-greatest-horse-in-history/). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/5 "2015-06-07T00:50:48Z")
What were the odds? I mean literally, what were they? I’m not a gambler, but I thought this morning about putting a hundred bucks on that horse. I didn’t do it, but say I had. What would the payoff on a hundred bucks have been? $101.50 or something silly like that? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/6 "2015-06-07T00:51:29Z")
I can’t tell if it’s correctly spelled as “Pharaoh”, or incorrectly spelled “Pharoah”, because most articles seem to spell it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/7 "2015-06-07T00:56:35Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I can’t tell if it’s correctly spelled as “Pharaoh”, or incorrectly spelled “Pharoah”, because most articles seem to spell it both ways. IIRC, they solicited people online to help them name the horse, and someone sent them the name ‘American Pharoah,’ and they liked it so much that they decided to use it, spelling error and all. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/8 "2015-06-07T01:13:40Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > What were the odds? I mean literally, what were they? I’m not a gambler, but I thought this morning about putting a hundred bucks on that horse. I didn’t do it, but say I had. What would the payoff on a hundred bucks have been? $101.50 or something silly like that? A winning bet paid $3.50 (for a $2 bet). So a $100 bet would have paid $175. > [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > IIRC, they solicited people online to help them name the horse, and someone sent them the name ‘American Pharoah,’ and they liked it so much that they decided to use it, spelling error and all. My understanding is that they didn’t notice the spelling error until after the name was registered. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/9 "2015-06-07T01:19:00Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > A winning bet paid $3.50 (for a $2 bet). So a $100 bet would have paid $175. > … I see, thanks. That’s better than $101.50, but not by a whole lot! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/10 "2015-06-07T01:36:23Z")
Well, it’s $73.50 better, but you’re right, the way to make money on horses is not generally to bet the favorite. (The way to make money on horses is to be the bookie.) ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/11 "2015-06-07T01:40:50Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Just a reminder of the original [Big Red, Man O’War](http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/man-o-war-greatest-horse-in-history/). Man O’War lost only once, to a horse named Upset at Saratoga. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/12 "2015-06-07T01:42:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Also, set second fastest time after the late, great Secretariat. Secretariat would have beaten Am. Phar by 15 lengths ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/13 "2015-06-07T03:33:25Z")
Secretariat was _amazing_. For those who haven’t seen it, [here is actual footage of his Belmont win](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V18ui3Rtjz4) in 1973. It is jaw-dropping _amazing_ the way he leaves the rest of the horses behind, if it was a Hollywood movie it would have been dismissed as ridiculous and unreal but it actually happened. At a certain point he just opens up, he just keeps shifting into a higher gear. He ran each quarter of the race faster than the one before which means when he crossed the finish line he was _still accelerating_. Now, American Pharoah today was also amazing, but as **Sir T-Cups** said, Secretariat would have left American Pharoah in the dust today. AP would have been halfway between Secretariat and the rest of the pack left behind in 1973. That’s why the Triple Crown is such a big deal - lots of horses win races, very few can win the Triple Crown. Those that do are usually that level of amazing, they are literally ahead of the pack. Kind of saw some of that today - AP starts out well enough, but at a certain point you see him put his head down and really lean into the race, and that’s when he pulls out ahead and wins it large. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/14 "2015-06-07T05:34:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Secretariat was _amazing_. For those who haven’t seen it, [here is actual footage of his Belmont win](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V18ui3Rtjz4) in 1973. It is jaw-dropping _amazing_ the way he leaves the rest of the horses behind, if it was a Hollywood movie it would have been dismissed as ridiculous and unreal but it actually happened. At a certain point he just opens up, he just keeps shifting into a higher gear. **He ran each quarter of the race faster than the one before which means when he crossed the finish line he was _still accelerating_**. Actually, Secretariat did that in the Kentucky Derby, not the Belmont. What Secretariat did in the Belmont that was shocking was to run the first half in a remarkable 1:09.4 and just keep going. American Pharoah actually ran the second half of his Belmont faster than Secretariat. But Pharoah had a relatively relaxed first half of the race, covering the first 6 furlongs in 1:13.41. Pharoah also ran the last quarter of the race faster than Secretariat, going 24.32 seconds vs. 25 seconds for Secretariat. One thing both American Pharoah and Secretariat also had in common was people who doubted each horse’s breeding would be sufficient to get them to go the Belmont distance, a mile and a half. For Secretariat, his sire Bold Ruler was thought to be a sire that transmitted speed, but not stamina, to his offspring. Pharoah’s sire line is impeccable in that regard, but his female family is full of sprinters, not distance types. But today, it didn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/15 "2015-06-07T13:53:59Z")
Rounding the turn on the way to The Game Room. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/16 "2015-06-10T13:56:55Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Secretariat would have beaten Am. Phar by 15 lengths The problem with this logic, is that it assumes both horses ran the race as fast as they possibly could, when it’s probable neither did. Unlike human athletes, who are looking for personal bests and always give maximal effort, jockeys are out to win the race (which means going as slow as possible for as long as possible so that their horse is fresh at the end), and the horses flat don’t care. They like running together in herds, but probably have no thought at all about their position within the herd at a certain point in time. Secretariat would probably win a match race vs. AP - but if they competed again at the 1.5 mile distance, they would have different times. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pharoah-wins-the-triple-crown/721825/17 "2015-06-10T17:01:09Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > The problem with this logic, is that it assumes both horses ran the race as fast as they possibly could, when it’s probable neither did. Unlike human athletes, who are looking for personal bests and always give maximal effort, jockeys are out to win the race (which means going as slow as possible for as long as possible so that their horse is fresh at the end), and the horses flat don’t care. They like running together in herds, but probably have no thought at all about their position within the herd at a certain point in time. > > Secretariat would probably win a match race vs. AP - but if they competed again at the 1.5 mile distance, they would have different times. I disagree that the horses don’t care. There are definitely horses who want to be in front, and get angry when challenged for their alpha position. There are quite a lot of “need to lead” horses who always go to the lead and completely give up if they aren’t in front. I also think relative track speed means that the “Secretariat would have won by 15 lengths” story is a total canard. Track surfaces change from day to day and even race to race, never mind 42 years! The Belmont Park surface that Secretariat ran his race over probably has as much similarity to that of the Belmont surface on Saturday as it does my driveway. The week of Secretariat’s Belmont, six track records were broken. That was probably the fastest Belmont Park has ever been. He still ran an awesome race.