# "American Pie" - the name of the plane??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 28, 1999, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191 "1999-05-28T19:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/1 "1999-05-29T05:05:00Z")
My brother just sent me a list of stuff, and included on it was the “fact” that the name of the plane Buddy Holly died on was “American Pie”. It seems this is too obvious to have never shown up anywhere. Does anyone know if this is true? Do small planes even have names? * * * Smile when you say that… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/2 "1999-05-28T19:16:00Z")
Cecil covered some possible meanings of the lyrics of “American Pie” in _Return of the Straight Dope_. (I don’t think there is an on-line copy of this column available.) And, from memory, I believe he said the song’s title was a general reference to the phrase “as American as apple pie”, which as I remember it was the general consensus at the time the song came out. The idea that the doomed plane was named “American Pie” is an urban legend that seems to have cropped up around 1990 or so. (I would guess this was due to a befuddled GenX’er trying to make sense out of one of the more obscure Boomer pop anthems: e.g. “Rosebud” refers to a sled, so “American Pie” must refer to an airplane). The best review of this topic I found was at the [Kentucky Connect](http://www.kentuckyconnect.com/heraldleader/buddyholly/buddy/letters.shtml) site, which notes: "Here is a sampling of correspondence we have received about “February 3, 1959: The Day The Music Died.” Many wrote to thank us for our site and to offer suggestions. Some wrote asking for information. We have tried to answer every message. Far and away the most-often asked question was “what was the name of plane.” The answer: It did not have a name, just a number: N 3794N. * * * [whitetho@ipass.net](mailto:whitetho@ipass.net) == Thomas H. White == Cary, NC Radio history page: [http://www.ipass.net/~whitetho/index.html](http://www.ipass.net/~whitetho/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/3 "1999-05-29T01:08:00Z")
Actually, TSD never said anything about apple pie. For us who actually read books, even Cecil was kinda confused. But for good reason. Mr. McLean said, to quote, “Songwriters should make their statements and move on, maintaining a digified silence”. WhatEVER! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/4 "1999-05-29T01:09:00Z")
Actually, TSD never said anything about apple pie. For us who actually read books, even Cecil was kinda confused. But for good reason. Mr. McLean said, to quote, “Songwriters should make their statements and move on, maintaining a digified silence”. WhatEVER! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/5 "1999-05-29T01:10:00Z")
Actually, TSD never said anything about apple pie. For us who actually read books, even Cecil was kinda confused. But for good reason. Mr. McLean said, to quote, “Songwriters should make their statements and move on, maintaining a digified silence”. WhatEVER! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/6 "1999-05-29T01:29:00Z")
I think some people fail to appreciate the beauty of the English language. The use of metaphor in songs is part of what makes song writing an artform. Using “Miss American Pie” as a metaphor for a more innocent age is a briliant poetic allusion. If American Pie was an actual entity (wheather an airplane or a pastry) my respect for McLean’s talents as a wordsmith would be greatly deminished. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/7 "1999-05-29T02:26:00Z")
That Kentucky Connect site was kinda fun to come upon. I _live_ in Lexington and am new to this site. * * * “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds” – Albert Einstein ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 1999, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/8 "1999-06-29T12:21:00Z")
‘Weird Al’ Yankovic’s new Star Wars parody song is based on “American Pie”. See [The Saga Begins](http://www.sagabegins.com/lyrics.html) for more details. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 1999, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/9 "1999-06-30T05:49:00Z")
The airplane that crashed was a small Beechcraft Bonanza, as I recall. Airplanes that small are rarely named. Usually you only see unique names on large transports or military aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 1999, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/10 "1999-07-02T05:16:00Z")
I don’t know the name of the plane. But my mother-in-law’s maiden name was Castine. And one time, a few years ago, she and her sisters all went to Castine, Maine to visit. They got their picture in the local newspaper, but since it was quite a few years after “American Pie” was written, I don’t think therre was any mention of them in the song. * * * Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you’ll never see him in church again. —Steve Brow ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 1999, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/11 "1999-07-23T04:48:00Z")
Dont forget also, that American Pie rhymes with the word bye. Songwriting is often a simple process of wordplay. And if it “sounds cool” thats what its all about. But I liked the suggestion that it was a metaphor for innocence. * * * ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 1999, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/12 "1999-07-23T05:22:00Z")
I don’t really have a good source on any of this, but the way I had always understood it was that American Pie was the nickname of said plane that Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and “Fats” Domino all perished in, and that the song in general was mourning the end of a more inoncent era. I Was also under the impression that “The Day the Music Died” reffered to an event at a football stadium where a marching band was violently forced off the field during an important game. I don’t remember the details, but I was told by my father that it had made the news long ago, and was termed “The Day The Music Died.” Mr. McClean’s song, as a whole, however, was very moving (to me at least) and conveyed a very powerful message. * * * Empress of the lands of Cheese and high preistess of Dairy. Gyunyun kawatte, oshiokyo! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 1999, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/13 "1999-07-23T05:44:00Z")
Not Fats Domino. The Big Bopper. People just don’t want to let go of this silly “it’s the name of the plane” UL. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 1999, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/14 "1999-07-23T06:45:00Z")
I heard that “The Day The Music Died” was the headline from a newspaper reporting the plane crash. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 1999, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/15 "1999-07-23T16:24:00Z")
Cess, I can’t say that _no_paper ran that headline, but it generally fails a plausibility test on a few points: A) As big as Rock and Roll later got, in 1959 a lot of “mainstream” America was still hoping that it was just a fad that would go away. B) As talented as Buddy Holly was, he had not yet achieved Superstar status (meaning instant recognition _outside_ the Rock and Roll community) at the time of his death. C) Newspapers of the fifties were fairly stuffy creatures that would be unlikely to use that sort of title for a small plane crash. ## NekoYouma, the “marching band” version I heard was the reverse of yours: an anti-war protest (or some similar event) was prevented at a half-time show because it would have interfered with the “regularly scheduled” bands’ performances. I have no idea whether this actually happened or was simply vivid imagination of all the people trying to fit events into the lyrics. Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 1999, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/16 "1999-07-24T02:25:00Z")
Papabear-thanks for the correction. It’s been a while since this topic has come around, so I can’t say brain is anything better than mouldy canteloupe. I really ought to look into this marching band thing, though… * * * Empress of the lands of Cheese and high preistess of Dairy. Gyunyun kawatte, oshiokyo! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 1999, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/17 "1999-07-24T13:51:00Z")
At the time the song came out in 1971 I was in 11th grade, and there was endless speculation about what various parts of the song might refer to. Two of the “marching band” theories of the time that I remember said the phrase “the marching band refused to yield” was: 1. a symbolic reference to the continuing Vietnam War (which was still going on when the song came out) 2. a reference to the long popularity of the Beatles–with the “marching band” reference being their Sgt. Pepper costumes. I don’t remember anyone ever talking about a real-lfe marching band incident. And I don’t think we are ever going to know for sure unless we can get Don McLean to start posting to this board. I can also understand why Don McLean is unhappy with this one song overshadowing the rest of his work. He had some wonderful songs–If We Try, Dreidel, the original version of Castles in the Air, Fool’s Paradise, to name a few–which unfortunately aren’t played anymore. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 1999, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/18 "1999-07-24T15:56:00Z")
It could be worse. I heard Arlo Guthrie, one time, joking about how he only had one song that ever got airplay–and only one day each year! * * * Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 1999, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/19 "1999-07-27T01:55:00Z")
Whitetho- Not for nothing, snickerdoodle, but “Rosebud” DOES refer directly to a Sled. “American Pie” isn’t a plane. Not only was “Rosebud” a creative and fascinating fulcrom upon which “Citizen Kane” was tipped to and fro, but one of the prop sleds made for the film now resides in the office of Steven Spielberg. I don’t know what happened to the others. As a veteran of many shoots, I can only surmise that several others were burned during the shooting of the climactic moment of “Citizen Kane”…now, THERE is a ?? for Cecil. How many sleds were there, and does anyone else have one? Best to All, 🙂 Typer “Rosebud” WAS the sled. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 1999, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191/20 "1999-07-27T08:57:00Z")
I don’t usually respond to people who misstate what I meant in a post, for fear of starting a flamewar, but here goes. I thought it was obvious to anyone that my point was that sometimes people can get too literal, for example, extending the fact that there was an actual burning sled with “Rosebud” written on it at the close of _Citizen Kane_, to believing that the plane that went down in Iowa must have had “American Pie” splashed on its side, which, of course, it didn’t. In any event, _Citizen Kane_ wasn’t really about a sled, it was a thinly disguised biography of publisher Randolph Hearst. And there is a theory that Rosebud was a very intimate nickname for his mistress, Marion Davies. See [Topkis v. Vidal](http://windhorst.org/caen/Topkis-Vidal.htm) for more details. A sled from the movie recently sold at auction at Christies for $233,500–this may be the Spielberg sled, since he bought Clark Gable’s Best Actor Oscar at the same auction. See: [Auction Highlights](http://www.odysseygroup.com/coll397/auction.htm) for more details. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pie-the-name-of-the-plane/191.md?page=2)