# American pro-Americanism: What's the cause? Will it persist? If not, then what?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 19, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718 "2003-04-19T23:23:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/1 "2003-04-19T23:23:06Z")
The pro-Americans I have in mind are those who tend to look for the best side of the US. e.g., consider this OP:
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177228&pagenumber=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177228&pagenumber=1)
1980’s support for Saddam was wrong. But, they always say “Given the circumstances, that was the best option we had… and Iran was a greater threat”. The US has had dozens of foreign policy stances in the last 20 years. Some turned out to be wrong. The Cold War provides a geographically diverse sampling of such mistakes, the repercussions of which are being felt to this day. Why continue to ignore or even worse, censor the past? Cannot they learn from the past so as to not repeat them going forward in a tumultuous time?
Or, consider those who assumed that the war in Afghanistan was about the _Taliban_, and consequent liberation and re-construction of the Afghan people, and that America, the bestest country in the world will be committed to accomplishing these goals. Then, there are those who automatically believed that the war in Iraq was really “Operation Iraqi Freedom”. Look at the Iraqi people celebrate… who cares if the US didn’t find WoMD. Now, the Iraqis are free to build their destiny with a little help from American corporations like Haliburton and Bechtel.
To me, it is perfectly natural to disagree with the policies of one’s own country. Who else’s are you going to disagree with? Most of us expect French people to criticize the French government, and we expect Israelis to choose to disagree with some of Israel’s policies etc. Yet, there are a great many pro-American Americans. The pro-American position is respectable. These people flood the media which means the people cannot have enough of it. Fox News is the leading cable channel. MSNBC had a jump in ratings following Fox’s formula. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2959833.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2959833.stm)
Even print media such as The Washington Times and Wall Street Journal often take pro-American positions.
1. Why is pro-Americanism so popular here in America?
America certainly is a great country, but no more so than other countries. My impression is that many PAAs enjoy the feeling of moral superiority.
(“In America we have freedom of speech” as if it is the only country in the world!)
2. Will pro-Americanism will remain popular. I think so. E.g., a number of universities have growing pro-war movements among the students. I think there will be a permanent enhancement in pro-Americanism, although I hope it never goes away. It’s healthy to support the nation IMHO.
3. If pro-Americanism becomes less popular, how will that impact society? I think the Republican Party and especially Bush will be hurt, because they tend to be associated with the PAAs. That is understandable given they are the men in charge now. I think universities may change their political philosophies, but not quickly. The group in power selects new members, so it’s hard to change it. I think Hollywood is already becoming more open to a conservative POV and that this trend will continue.
Lastly, would you have supported the Government when Rosa Parks stood up? Would you have supported the Government-sponsored McCarthyism? Would you have supported the Nazi Government oppression of the Jewish people?
(I tried to bring in MLK somewhere but there was space only for Rosa Parks and sorry, there was just no way feminism could be squeezed in)
The moral: Oversimplification is easy. Name -calling is convenient. But, both make it that much harder to have healthy debate, and consequently healthy support and criticism, all of which are pivotal to keep a consensual governmental system running. And, more importantly, there must be a corollary to Godwin’s Law that can be used when someone (cough…cough) mentions Rosa Parks or MLK.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/2 "2003-04-20T21:57:55Z")
The SDMB really should have a rule banning mindless pro-Americanism; it’s meaningless to try to have a debate with someone whose only response to any point is “USA! USA! USA! Woohoo!”
😉
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### Author:  [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/3 "2003-04-20T22:04:17Z")
do I need to add cocksucker-motherfucker-goatfelcher to the OP? Please advise.
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### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/4 "2003-04-20T22:33:57Z")
That you speak of ‘Pro-Americanism’ as something that needs to be toned-down/suppressed is somewhat disturbing.
To address a few of your points:
1. Americans do have a great amount of ‘freedom’. And recently, American actions in Iraq have given more freedom to the people of Iraq. American actions in Afghanistan have given more freedom to the people of Afghanistan. Etc. Surely these are the actions of a ‘Great Nation’, that when it conquers a country, said country is more free after the war. So it follows that people are damned proud of their country, for helping spread freedom and liberty.
2. Pro-Americanism always has been, and always will be, popular. While there will always be a segment of college kids that buy the garbage spoon-fed to them by their ‘professors’, most do not. And I am willing to bet that many of those who are brainless bongo-mashers in college, ‘see the light’ once they are exposed to the real world.
3. Since you associate Pro-American with GW and the GOP, does it seem logical to associate Anti-American with ??? and the DNC?
And yes, I would have supported McCarthyism. ‘Communism’ is among the greatest evils ever foisted on this world. I will gladly take the (much, much) lesser of two evils if the specter of Communism is ever again raised.
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### Author:  [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/5 "2003-04-20T22:53:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> \*\*That you speak of ‘Pro-Americanism’ as something that needs to be toned-down/suppressed is somewhat disturbing.
> \*\*
That you disagree with an American makes you Un-American!
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### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/6 "2003-04-20T22:57:26Z")
Who said anything about him being Un-American? Being an American is a matter of citizenship, not beliefs or political orientation.
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### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/7 "2003-04-20T23:00:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> \*\*Who said anything about him being Un-American? Being an American is a matter of citizenship, not beliefs or political orientation. \*\*
Well, within reason, I should have added. There are certain beliefs and political orientations that _should_ strip a person of their citizenship, but they are rare enough to not warrant much attention.
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/8 "2003-04-20T23:00:38Z")
That you acuse an American of being Un-American is, er, American?
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/9 "2003-04-20T23:03:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lobsang \*
> \*\*That you acuse an American of being Un-American is, er, American? \*\*
So… How about them Page 3 gals, eh?
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/10 "2003-04-20T23:12:40Z")
I prefer the ones on the front of the Daily Star.
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/11 "2003-04-20T23:21:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lobsang \*
> \*\*I prefer the ones on the front of the Daily Star. \*\*
Yes. [I see your point.](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/index.html)
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### Author:  [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/12 "2003-04-21T00:34:56Z")
**Brutus**
Did you read the OP? The last paragraph? The linked OP in GD?
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### Author:  [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/13 "2003-04-21T00:36:55Z")
Dailystar or Megastar?
Let’s keep the facts straight people. This is honest thread territory.
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/14 "2003-04-21T00:44:39Z")
Yes, Megastar is different. I said [Daily Star](http://www.dailystar.co.uk/)
Although those babes in your link are nice too.
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/15 "2003-04-21T00:58:48Z")
Actually, now that I’ve browsed a bit. That megastar site is great! At first I thought it was typical page3 type babes, but it’s an assortment of those, and celeb babes (such as Anna Kournikova!)
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/16 "2003-04-21T01:06:08Z")
D’oh!
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### Author:  [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/17 "2003-04-21T01:31:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by litost \*
> \*\*Dailystar or Megastar?
> \*\*
Sinistar. He Hungers…
Playing Sinistar is Un-American!
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### Author:  [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/18 "2003-04-21T04:22:57Z")
It is either Pro or Anti. Un is _so_:rolleyes: 60s
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/19 "2003-04-21T04:58:52Z")
[Can](http://www.megastar.co.uk/megastar/news/2002/03/25/sMEG01MTAxNzA2NzQyOTY.html) [we](http://www.megastar.co.uk/megastar/news/2002/03/26/sMEG01MTAxNzEzODg5NDk.html) [get](http://www.megastar.co.uk/megastar/news/2002/05/09/sMEG01MTAyMDk0NjYxODQ.html) [back](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/a_b.html) [to](http://www.megastar.co.uk/megastar/news/2002/03/28/sMEG01MTAxNzMxNTA0NDE.html) [my](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babenews/news/2003/03/24/sMEG01MTA0ODUwNzc3OTA.html) [hijack](http://www.megastar.co.uk/megastar/news/2002/04/25/sMEG01MTAxOTczMDIxMjc.html) [now,](http://www.megastar.co.uk/megastar/news/2002/04/22/sMEG01MTAxOTQ3Mjk1NzU.html)
[please?](http://www.megastar.co.uk/megastar/news/2002/05/30/sMEG01MTAyMjc1NTgzMjE.html)
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/20 "2003-04-21T05:14:31Z")
[By](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/a_b.html) [all](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/c_d.html) [means](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/o_p.html)[!](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/m_n.html)
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