# American pro-Americanism: What's the cause? Will it persist? If not, then what?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 19, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718 "2003-04-19T23:23:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/21 "2003-04-21T05:17:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lobsang \*
> \*\*[By](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/a_b.html) [all](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/c_d.html) [means](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/o_p.html)[!](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/m_n.html) \*\*
[Excellent!](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/o_p.html) [Why](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/q_r.html) [not](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/s_t.html) [start](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/u_v.html) [right](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/w_x.html) [now?](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/y_z.html)
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/22 "2003-04-21T05:20:01Z")
[We](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/e_f.html) [forgot](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/g_h.html) [a](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/i_j.html) [couple.](http://www.megastar.co.uk/babes/a_z/k_l.html)
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### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/23 "2003-04-21T05:31:08Z")
[I](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=19627) [prefer](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=1771) [these](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=21211) [ones](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=2916)
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### Author:  [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/24 "2003-04-21T06:34:51Z")
This has to be the worst hijack ever.
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### Author:  [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/25 "2003-04-21T07:42:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lobsang \*
> \*\*[I](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=19627) [prefer](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=1771) [these](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=21211) [ones](http://www.whatsbetter.com/display.pyt?item=2916) \*\*
Why does discussing patriotism always make me horny?
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/26 "2003-04-21T10:21:50Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by litost \*
> \*\*This has to be the worst hijack ever. \*\*
š
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### Author:  [@Clint\_in\_Wichita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clint_in_Wichita)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/27 "2003-04-21T13:35:02Z")
> [@](#):
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> 1. Why is pro-Americanism so popular here in America?
You fucking BM eating retard.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/28 "2003-04-21T14:28:54Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Clint in Wichita \*
> \*\*You fucking BM eating retard. \*\*
Ah, as witty as ever Clint.
Out of interest, can anyone tell me what BM is? Or indeed what the cerebrally challenged wank is talking about?
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### Author:  [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/29 "2003-04-21T14:43:00Z")
Could it be, _bowel movement_ā¦
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### Author:  [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/30 "2003-04-21T18:19:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> \*\*ā¦ And yes, I would have supported McCarthyism. āCommunismā is among the greatest evils ever foisted on this world. I will gladly take the (much, much) lesser of two evils if the specter of Communism is ever again raised. \*\*
So, what is it like being this stupid? Is it like being a bug has partisan hardwiring? Or did you get the secret list of communists that the rest of the world is not privileged to have seen?
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/31 "2003-04-21T19:46:39Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> **1) Americans do have a great amount of āfreedomā. And recently, American actions in Iraq have given more freedom to the people of Iraq. American actions in Afghanistan have given more freedom to the people of Afghanistan. Etc. Surely these are the actions of a āGreat Nationā, that when it conquers a country, said country is more free after the war. So it follows that people are damned proud of their country, for helping spread freedom and liberty.**
Alright, fair is fair. No matter what the motivation was, it is undoubtedly true that both the Afghani and Iraqi people enjoy, or are going to enjoy, more freedom and liberties after the US military actions that took place in their respective countries. Letās just take that as a given fact, and letās not discuss the underlying motivations in this thread.
Why then does it seem that there is only a fixed amount of freedom to go 'round? Because while US troops were busy distributing liberty and peace in Afghanistan and Iraq, your very own government, **Brutus** , was passing all sorts of bills that were curtailing _American_ liberties. Apparently, you have to re-slice the pie of freedom to distribute it equally along all citizens of the world. I for one think **Brutus** is a bigger man than I, for accepting this apparent ass raping for what it truly is: redistribution of freedom towards those who need it most. Why, if I didnāt know Brutus any better, Iād call it downright _socialist_.
[sub]A subtitled version of this post is available for the sarcasm-impaired.[/sub]
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/32 "2003-04-21T19:48:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Brutus \*
> That you speak of āPro-Americanismā as something that needs to be toned-down/suppressed is somewhat disturbing.
That you feel this way is un-American.
> [@](#):
>
> And yes, I would have supported McCarthyism.
Iām glad to hear your problemās been diagnosed. Do the doctors expect to have a cure soon?
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### Author:  [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/33 "2003-04-21T20:02:16Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Coldfire \*
> Why then does it seem that there is only a fixed amount of freedom to go 'round? Because while US troops were busy distributing liberty and peace in Afghanistan and Iraq, your very own government, **Brutus** , was passing all sorts of bills that were curtailing _American_ liberties. Apparently, you have to re-slice the pie of freedom to distribute it equally along all citizens of the world.
Perhaps it may appear that way from afar. However, the infringements in civil liberties here in America are trivial compared to the civil liberties gains in Afghanistan and in Iraq.
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### Author:  [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/34 "2003-04-21T20:06:44Z")
Any infringement of American civil liberty is, by default, not trivial.
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/35 "2003-04-21T23:30:02Z")
No, **blanx** , you donāt get it. Forfaiting the right to a fair trial and representation because the Government has decided to do away with such annoyances _ābecause thereās a war going on, and while weāre at it, we want to make it permantent, too, but donāt you sweat it, hereās some cool footage of a pack of Bradley tanks engaging a bunch of sand dunes!ā_ is completely trivial. It in no way measures up against the injustices inflicted upon the poor Iraqis by the evil, _evil_ Saddam.
[sub]Previously known as Saddam-our-jolly-good-buddy-whose-minor-infractions-weāll-pretend-not-to-see, of course.[/sub]
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### Author:  [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/36 "2003-04-22T00:21:25Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by december \*
> \*\*Perhaps it may appear that way from afar. However, the infringements in civil liberties here in America are trivial compared to the civil liberties gains in Afghanistan and in Iraq. \*\*
To me it appears that way from up close, too. Though I will admit that being imprisoned is rather more appealing than being extrajudicially executed, Iām sure the thousand or so people who were arrested and held, often without charges being filed against them or being allowed to examine the evidence against them (if any existed), for varying durations, in the wake of 9/11 would take issue with your analysis.
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### Author:  [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/37 "2003-04-22T01:30:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Coldfire \*
> \*\*No, **blanx** , you donāt get it. Forfaiting the right to a fair trial and representation because the Government has decided to do away with such annoyances _ābecause thereās a war going on, and while weāre at it, we want to make it permantent, too, but donāt you sweat it, hereās some cool footage of a pack of Bradley tanks engaging a bunch of sand dunes!ā_ is completely trivial. It in no way measures up against the injustices inflicted upon the poor Iraqis by the evil, _evil_ Saddam.
>
> [sub]Previously known as Saddam-our-jolly-good-buddy-whose-minor-infractions-weāll-pretend-not-to-see, of course.[/sub] \*\*
Having a few criminals or enemy agents not get quick trials is trivial compared to routinely torturing, maiming and murdering thousands of men, women and children, year after year. Youāre not seriously equating the two, are you?
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### Author:  [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/38 "2003-04-22T01:44:05Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by december \*
> \*\*Having a few criminals or enemy agents not get quick trials is trivial compared to routinely torturing, maiming and murdering thousands of men, women and children, year after year. Youāre not seriously equating the two, are you? \*\*
I think that the point here is that it is just higher on the same slippery slope. Of course you would realize that if you werenāt such a partisan, conservative apologist fucknugget of a freak.
Look, it is very simple. Either we are the good guys, or the bad guys. At this point, we are not behaving like the good guys.
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/39 "2003-04-22T01:49:02Z")
Iām not equating the two. Iām saying that the āWe went to war to save the poor Iraqis, and give them the freedom they deserveā argument (which was at best a convenient byproduct of āOperation Iraqi Freedomā anyway) kinda loses a bit of validity when youāre curtailing the liberties of your _own_ citizens at the same time.
Surely, Iām not the only one to notice that irony?
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### Author:  [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-pro-americanism-whats-the-cause-will-it-persist-if-not-then-what/169718/40 "2003-04-22T17:55:24Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by rjung \*
> **The SDMB really should have a rule banning mindless pro-Americanism; itās meaningless to try to have a debate with someone whose only response to any point is "USA! USA! USA! Woohoo!"**
Or those great people who give their side of a discussion on a topic but their only response to _any_ part of our society that could use a little work is, āDonāt like it? Go to Iraq.ā
It makes what could be a conversation that I could get some interesting information out of intoā¦ wellā¦ talking to a wall.
Isnāt our nation _about_ change? Isnāt that how our nation has survived? If something isnāt right the voters let it be known.
I thought that the āDonāt like it? Get out!ā policies was what we were fighting against in Iraq.
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