# American smokers making 30K a year or less spend 1/7 to 1/4 of their income on... cigarettes?! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 23, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298 "2014-10-23T23:28:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/41 "2014-10-24T18:42:25Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > There is a reason why all of the personal finance experts that I read and follow recommend quitting smoking as part of their budget plans. Quitting smoking now greatly reduces serious risks to your wallet. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/42 "2014-10-24T19:11:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There was a article in the Natl Geo. It’s gonna be made into a film. In it, the woman is traveling across Australia on a camel with her dog. > > Possible spoiler: > > The dog dies, having eaten poisoned food left for wild dingoes. She states she didnt have enough room to carry dog food. But she did have plenty of room to carry her ciggies. Thus her smoking habit killed her dog. > > Inconsiderate careless bitch. Well, that seems immensely judgmental and somewhat innumerate. Dog food is both heavier and bulkier than cigarettes. From what I can tell, a dog will eat about a pound of food/day. A dog jogging across Australia – maybe 1 1/2 pounds? Meanwhile, a carton of cigarettes weighs one pound and lasts 10 or more days. So without having read the article, I’ll guess she packed three or four cartons of cigarettes – enough weight to have fed the dog for two or three days. So… Puppy still gets the munchies and eats poisoned dingo food. Knowing what I know of dogs, the dog would have eaten the food if she had packed an entire extra camel’s worth of Puppy Chow and beef jerky. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/43 "2014-10-24T19:20:30Z")
Given a pack of cigs can cost $14.50 or more in NYC, depending on how much one smokes and being too stupid to (i) buy cartons, and (ii) do that someplace other than NYC … I suppose in theory it’s \*possible \*to spend $870/month for two packs a day. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/44 "2014-10-24T20:55:34Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > “American smokers” does include a few people who smoke a pack or more a day, but I suspect a majority of them smoke way fewer than that. Even a pack a day smoker isn’t much over $1,500 a year, which is only 5% of a $30K gross. I haven’t seen anything yet on Vice that wasn’t exaggerated and cherry-picked to the point of essential bullshit. > > Most people who pull up at Starbucks pay more for their habit than a pack of cigarettes. The article was quoting (accurately) the linked study it was based on. [The Consequences of High Cigarette Excise Taxes for Low-Income Smokers](http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0043838#s4) ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/45 "2014-10-24T21:10:26Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Something else making the bite worse is take-home pay. When you say someone makes $30,000 a year, that’s almost always gross pay, but net take-home is typically somewhere around two-thirds of that, so they’re really coming home with $20,000 a year. More like $25,500 or $26,000. People in that bracket don’t pay anywhere near 33% in income taxes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/46 "2014-10-24T21:50:11Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > You really think most people in Starbucks spend more than $7? Or more than $10? Every day? Not most, but quite a few do. My best friend had to cut back when he added it up and figured he was dropping $300-400 a month on Starbucks. I also know a lot of people who drink at bars at least once or twice a week, a habit that can quite easily put a person out $150 a month or more. I don’t really get spending that much money a month on drinking, because it isn’t my thing. And gambling, holy shit. Don’t get me started on people and gambling. If my mother drops less than a thousand a month, I’ll eat a bingo dabber. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/47 "2014-10-24T22:31:44Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Now this is _complete_ bullshit made up by someone who clearly does not know the actual prices of Starbucks drinks, nor the prices of a pack of cigarettes. > > From just a few posts up: > You really think most people in Starbucks spend more than $7? Or more than $10? Every day? I have a number of friends and co-workers who seem to do this at least 4 out of 5 days a week at work. The more mature of them will admit they could probably save a hundred dollars or more a month by avoiding Stabucks, but the pumpkin latte is like cocaine to them. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/48 "2014-10-25T00:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] More like $25,500 or $26,000. People in that bracket don’t pay anywhere near 33% in income taxes. [/QUOTE] OK, so it’s 22.5% Still a big chunk. From [PaycheckManager.com](http://PaycheckManager.com), I get this breakdown for a single person in California. At PaycheckCity, the net was $23,026.64. And that’s without health insurance. Salary $30,000.00 Pre-tax Deductions (401k, IRA, etc.) $0.00 Federal Income Tax $3,708.75 Social Security Tax $1,860.00 Medicare Tax $435.00 State UI Tax $0.00 State DI Tax $300.00 State Income Tax $669.26 Net Pay $23,026.99 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/49 "2014-10-25T01:59:42Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/50 "2014-10-25T04:52:28Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > If you smoke for any length of time, you know it’s bad for you. I knew it at age 18 when I would wake up wheezing with painful lungs. King James railed against the dangers of tobacco smoke in the early 1600s. We knew it caused cancer in the 50s. Anybody who is still alive knew their whole lives smoking was deadly. Age is no excuse. You know what is an excuse? Addiction. Bullshit. You didn’t have to smoke that first cigarette. That’s my point- it’s just about criminally stupid to even try the things, much less keep going with them, knowing what we’ve known for the past half century. Addiction is a consequence, not an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![MrDurden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@MrDurden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDurden)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/51 "2014-10-25T06:23:15Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I know alcoholics who buy alcohol rather than pay rent. Tobacco is the same thing. An addiction. They will lie, cheat and steal to support their habit. uh, what? I mean, Im sure plenty of people have stolen a pack of cigarettes, that’s why they are always kept behind the corner. But it’s not like people who use tobacco are crack-addled junkies mugging people for a pack of Camels. Get real ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/52 "2014-10-25T10:48:24Z")
Tobacco, coffee, alcohol, gambling, etc. If people are happy, more power to 'em. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/53 "2014-10-25T11:35:26Z")
So what? What percentage of income do nerds spend on games, or people spend on cable/internet access, junk food, booze, lotto tickets, or new shoes? It’s your money to spend as you see fit. Maybe don’t judge others until you’re willing to be an open book to the judgement of others regarding how you spend your money! ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/54 "2014-10-25T20:33:50Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Not to blame the victim here, but poor people don’t have good financial skills. They didn’t learn to manage their finances in school or from their equally poor parents or social circle, and when you’re poor there is little opportunity to learn. Yeah, that’s why there are no self-made rich people who came from poor backgrounds. :smack: I’m from a poor background and I’m the best budgeter you’re ever likely to meet. The meme that poor people are poor because they don’t know how to manage money is very much victim blaming. Of the people I’ve seen come to grief over money, it’s always the people who came from well-off backgrounds that have trouble grasping the concept that there is no more money. The great majority of people from poor backgrounds, like me, learn to budget very early on, because we have to. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/55 "2014-10-25T21:16:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > So what? What percentage of income do nerds spend on games, or people spend on cable/internet access, junk food, booze, lotto tickets, or new shoes? > > It’s your money to spend as you see fit. Maybe don’t judge others until you’re willing to be an open book to the judgement of others regarding how you spend your money! Smoking doesn’t stop being a horrible idea because there are other ways to waste money. Plus, “nerds” don’t develop diseases like lung cancer or emphysema playing games. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/56 "2014-10-26T18:14:29Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Smoking doesn’t stop being a horrible idea because there are other ways to waste money. > > Plus, “nerds” don’t develop diseases like lung cancer or emphysema playing games. Perhaps not, but gaming being a fairly sedentary lifestyle option if pursued intensively I don’t think it’s going to do much for their overall fitness, weight management or cardiovascular health as they age. Not as bad as smoking but sitting in spot almost immobile daily for 4-8 hours at a stretch as your “recreation” doesn’t have much to recommend it health-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/57 "2014-10-26T23:28:16Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Perhaps not, but gaming being a fairly sedentary lifestyle option if pursued intensively I don’t think it’s going to do much for their overall fitness, weight management or cardiovascular health as they age. Not as bad as smoking but sitting in spot almost immobile daily for 4-8 hours at a stretch as your “recreation” doesn’t have much to recommend it health-wise. No doubt. My point was, pointing at some other way people waste money and ruin their health isn’t exculpatory of smoking. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/58 "2014-10-27T04:55:51Z")
I know a fellow who is 66, and used to be wealthy - 40+ years ago. He now lives on about $700 in SS. He finally discovered the welfare stat (this is CA - rather generous). His rotted teeth are all gone - cheap dentures, but they don’t hurt like rotted teeth (CA is not all that generous with Dentistry - they will pay for extractions and dentures, not repairs). Back in the bad days, he bought what I’m guessing was pipe tobacco and rolled his own. Then he found Food Stamps now he smokes factory-made filter tips (while hacking out a lung). Still eats crap, but priorities are priorities. I told him how I quit (I’ll almost guarantee it will work - it may do so by killing you, but you’ll stop). WARNING!!! I HAVE RUN THIS PAST 3 DOCTORS - ALL BLANCHED. 1. Wear 21 mg trans dermal patches for a month (or more! increase the odds of dying!) 2. Chain smoke until you are physically ill. If the nicotine OD doesn’t kill you, you are probably going to be clean. Someone upstream compared nicotine addiction to heroin addiction. I once saw a number: Nicotine is rated as 6 TIMES as addictive as heroin (who said so, what their methodology was, I don’t know). I have no trouble believing it. I kicked both nicotine and alcohol (unfortunately, a quick OD of alcohol is incompatible with breathing, so I had to do that one the hard way). Still: No comparison. Kids: I lost both parents and the woman I loved to lung cancer (little Katie outdid herself - metastasized to brain cancer and was dead at age 50 years, 6 months, 1 week, and one day). I’ve seen all the obits I care to - so have all _your_ loved ones. Don’t add another. Back to cig prices: Before they realized that sovereignty meant they could run casinos, I remember huge signs: Cigarettes -$2/carton - NO TAXES! outside reservations - I always figured there was a cop waiting on the road out of the Reservation who DID want the taxes (plus a bit) - was my guess correct? Any old farts remember buying cigs on a Reservation and actually getting them home unmolested by the law? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/59 "2014-10-27T05:04:27Z")
My question is, where do they smoke anymore? Restaurants, shopping areas, businesses, and even alot of bars ban smoking. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298/60 "2014-10-27T05:28:15Z")
Many low-income folks either don’t work or work in jobs where smoking is the least of the problems - toxins, physically unsafe equipment, work spot (you’re digging a hole in the middle of nowhere). These are not nice, clean offices with flowers on the receptionist’s desk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-smokers-making-30k-a-year-or-less-spend-1-7-to-1-4-of-their-income-on-cigarettes/702298.md?page=4)