# American soldier crosses into North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221 "2023-07-18T16:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/21 "2023-07-19T02:16:22Z")
> [@"gnoitall](#): > > You might think that, but [military.com](http://military.com) has no affiliation with the Department of Defense or any of the individual service Departments, like the Department of the Army. Fair enough, but it looks to me that Private Second Class is an informal common destination for E-2. If Private King was going through the planned progression without delay, he’d now be at least E-3. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/22 "2023-07-19T02:20:17Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I know. The Secretary of Defense is quoted today as saying “I’m absolutely foremost concerned about the welfare of our troop.” > > Secretary, he is no longer your troop. Considering him such makes the U.S. government look pitiful. I’m going to make a principled stand here, and declare that until the U.S. military officially kicks him out, he is very much our troop, and our responsibility. Leaving him to his fate would be pitiful. We take care of our own. The Secretary was reiterating a longstanding U.S. policy, and it’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/23 "2023-07-19T02:22:56Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > They are going to debrief the fuck out of him for quite a while. He may never come back. Or maybe they’ll quickly realize what a pathetic loser he must be and send him on his way, whether he wants it or not. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/24 "2023-07-19T02:36:21Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Or maybe they’ll quickly realize what a pathetic loser he must be and send him on his way, whether he wants it or not. And get nothing in return? Why would Kim Jong Un do that? In the Trump administration, they got a U.S. presidential visit out of it, something they then wanted. As for what they might want to get from Biden now — easing of sanctions. But Biden won’t give there. Beyond that what they want is to humiliate the U.S. By having our Secretary of Defense involved with a misbehaving E-2, they are already making progress there. Prisoner exchange seems impractical, because I don’t think we have any of their spies in prison right now. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/25 "2023-07-19T02:41:45Z")
Good riddance to bad rubbish. Her could not have crossed over “accidentally” although the North Koreans have kidnapped people with skills they need. This kind of loser will be a loser no matter where he lives. I was stationed in South Korea when two American officers were hacked to death on the DMZ. It’s arguably the most closely watched place on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/26 "2023-07-19T02:42:05Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > We take care of our own. He was going to be subject to the U.S. system of military justice on return to the U.S. Not my idea of caring. In a time when we aren’t in active war, it seems to me that U.S. military members are free to defect. That’s why no U.S. or South Korean soldier was going to shoot him in the back while he ran to NK. Why can’t we respect his decision? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/27 "2023-07-19T02:48:11Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > In a time when we aren’t in active war, it seems to me that U.S. military members are free to defect. Uhm, no. Not sure where you got that idea. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/28 "2023-07-19T02:57:55Z")
I don’t know where you get your idea that soldiers are free to make their own decisions, and go where they please. I had. back in 1977, a fairly high security clearance and was not even allowed to go to the DMZ, much less cross over if I felt like it. It doesn’t sound as if this traitor was prime military material, but as long as he was still in uniform he is under discipline. Heck, the man who was intended to be the best man at my wedding went AWOL, and although he came back before the wedding, he was restricted to base, although not held in the brig. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/29 "2023-07-19T03:02:21Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > In a time when we aren’t in active war, it seems to me that U.S. military members are free to defect. > > Uhm, no. Not sure where you got that idea. Of course it is a violation of rules and military law to defect. But where I got the idea is pretty simple: – If a North Korean soldier runs towards South Korea, he is shot in the back by his compatriots. – If a South Korean or American soldier runs towards North Korea, he is not shot, at least by our side. P.S. Suppose that King does get released in a prison exchange. After Secretary Austin has already said how much we care about our troop, is he really going to be subject to some big punishment above and beyond what he is going to get for the assault he was jailed for by South Korea? If the answer is no, our law against soldiers deserting to adversaries in peacetime is a dead letter. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/30 "2023-07-19T03:27:00Z")
You do understand that here in America, even in the military, we try to have a range of punishments that are proportionate to the nature of the infraction, rather than just “shoot him in the back”? We also like to enact those punishments after a judicial proceeding that establishes the facts of what happened and affords the accused due process. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/31 "2023-07-19T04:11:54Z")
> [@Ponderoid](#): > > I’m going to make a principled stand here, and declare that until the U.S. military officially kicks him out, he is very much our troop, and our responsibility. Leaving him to his fate would be pitiful. We take care of our own. The Secretary was reiterating a longstanding U.S. policy, and it’s a good one. Then he’s AWOL in a hostile country. Try him for desertion and fraternizing with the enemy and let NK pay for his incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/32 "2023-07-19T04:31:57Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > [@"gnoitall](#): > > > > You might think that, but [military.com](http://military.com) has no affiliation with the Department of Defense or any of the individual service Departments, like the Department of the Army. > > Fair enough, but it looks to me that Private Second Class is an informal common destination for E-2. If Private King was going through the planned progression without delay, he’d now be at least E-3. I spent nearly 30 years in the Army. Literally no one says Private Second Class. It’s not a thing either formally or informally. If you are an E-2 you are called PV2 or just Private. It’s also a rank you spend a very short time at unless you are demoted into it. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/33 "2023-07-19T06:36:08Z")
I can’t help thinking that you’d have to be mentally ill to head for North Korea on purpose. Especially now that they are heading into a second starving time. It just doesn’t bear rational thought. Perhaps we could assume him to be ignorant of the dangers and conditions there, but i find that hard to believe. Surely the Army gives them some sort of training about it before they enter the area? Whatever the case, he’s our troop, and our citizen. We get him back home and we help and/or punish him here. When we are sure he’s sane, and has paid his debt, then if he wants to renounce his citizenship and return to NK he is free to do so. But they don’t get to torture him to death while he is still connected to our military. Hell no. What would that convey to every other service member? We have your back - - as long as your record is clean? Hell. No. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/34 "2023-07-19T08:37:00Z")
From the sound of it, he wasn’t at the DMZ as part of his official duties - he was in one of the tour groups that the Army takes people on that get to visit the JSA and some of the watch towers and attempted North Korean tunnels, like you see in this video. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/erXTfmiYZ7k/maxresdefault.jpg "The Surreal and Very Real DMZ-Walking Into North Korea (With DMZ Facts/Figures)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erXTfmiYZ7k) My guess would be that he waited for an opportune moment and dashed past the ROK guards, and they either didn’t attempt to stop him or weren’t able to grab him before he crossed the border. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/35 "2023-07-19T12:41:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > From the sound of it, he wasn’t at the DMZ as part of his official duties - he was in one of the tour groups that the Army takes people on that get to visit the JSA and some of the watch towers and attempted North Korean tunnels, like you see in this video. We know. That was in the link in the OP and discussed in multiple posts. He was on a tour for civilians and wasn’t in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/36 "2023-07-19T13:15:34Z")
He’s still our citizen, our soldier, and our responsibility. We do need to make an effort to get him back. Which says nothing about how much effort we need to make to get him back. And of course, that question is also influenced by whether he even wants to get back. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/37 "2023-07-19T13:19:23Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > What would that convey to every other service member? We have your back - - as long as your record is clean? Hell. No. I think you’re overestimating the level of solidarity the military’s rank and file (and leadership) feel with complete fuck-ups. I’m fine with the idea that the US should seek his return (on general principle, perhaps) but let’s not imagine it’s for anything but our national ego. Surely not because it will be some great comfort to members of the military. ETA: Just to go a little further, my experience is that the type of individual who is all “Rah, rah! Never leave a man behind! Don’t let the flag touch the ground!” is, ironically, the first to say “Nah, eff this guy. He screwed up and clearly doesn’t want deserve to be an American anymore. Call it addition by subtraction and let 'em rot.” Not unlike the Amber Guygers of the world, they are full of swagger, coupled with an absolute certainty that _they’d_ never fuck up so bad that their basic human rights would be in danger on account of their own stupidity, and they have not an ounce of sympathy for anyone who isn’t a mirror image of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/38 "2023-07-19T13:32:11Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > But they don’t get to torture him to death while he is still connected to our military. Hell no. What would that convey to every other service member? We have your back - - as long as your record is clean? Hell. No. What makes you think NK will do that? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/39 "2023-07-19T13:53:04Z")
This makes me think of Willy Wonka’s “Stop. Don’t. Come back.” addressed to the child willfully putting himself in danger. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/40 "2023-07-19T13:56:45Z")
Well, that guy that was sent back in, I think, 2017, who never recovered from his coma. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=3)