# American soldier crosses into North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221 "2023-07-18T16:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/41 "2023-07-19T14:39:58Z")
That was different. In NK’s eyes, Otto committed a grave crime while in NK on a tour. A defection of a US soldier is a propaganda win for them, they aren’t going to torture the guy. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/42 "2023-07-19T14:54:57Z")
More information. > **[US soldier got in fights, damaged police car before dash to North Korea -...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-soldier-got-fights-damaged-061303418.html)** > > SEOUL (Reuters) -Months before he fled into North Korea, U.S. soldier Travis King faced two assault allegations and was fined by a South Korean court for damaging a police car, according to a court ruling and a lawyer who represented him. The U.S.... ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/43 "2023-07-19T15:01:04Z")
At this point, I’m assuming that he woke up this morning with the mother of all hangovers mumbling “man, what did I do yesterday” to himself. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/44 "2023-07-20T04:59:07Z")
military dot com is not actually a government outfit. I agree with you that they _should_ know what they’re talking about, but and alas, they don’t always. I also agree with you about our service members should be on their best behavior while overseas. That’s actually drilled into them when they receive their orders to go overseas, and also upon arrival and periodically while stationed in another country. There’s a nifty bit of information about the DMZ tour. You have to schedule in advance and provide your passport information. US military stationed in Korea are not required to have a passport, so they use their military identifiction card instead. The USO is not the only outfit providing tours. I can see the USO being advised of a BOLO message for this particular genius, but I doubt other tour providers are. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/45 "2023-07-20T09:01:03Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I can’t help thinking that you’d have to be mentally ill to head for North Korea on purpose. Especially now that they are heading into a second starving time. It just doesn’t bear rational thought. From what little I’ve learned of this guy in the past day or so he does not seem to be a deep thinker. I’m leaning towards “has poor impulse control and anger issues”. This leads to dumb actions that _seem_ like a good idea at the time (but aren’t). > [@Smapti](#): > > My guess would be that he waited for an opportune moment and dashed past the ROK guards, and they either didn’t attempt to stop him or weren’t able to grab him before he crossed the border. And he was _laughing_ as he ran which is just… bizarre. Maybe he was thinking “think is how I get out of facing trouble back in the States!”. Well, maybe he avoided _that_ particular problem but it’s a case of out of the frying pan, into the fire. Also, when and if he eventually gets back to the States he will face the exact discipline he’s currently evading, and then some. > [@Chronos](#): > > Which says nothing about how much effort we need to make to get him back. And of course, that question is also influenced by whether he even wants to get back. I expect he’ll be experiencing some regret about his life choices in the last few days. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Just to go a little further, my experience is that the type of individual who is all “Rah, rah! Never leave a man behind! Don’t let the flag touch the ground!” is, ironically, the first to say “Nah, eff this guy. He screwed up and clearly doesn’t want deserve to be an American anymore. Call it addition by subtraction and let 'em rot.” And, not infrequently, are also individuals who have never served a day in the military. > [@Dorjan](#): > > > [@TruCelt](#): > > > > But they don’t get to torture him to death while he is still connected to our military. Hell no. What would that convey to every other service member? We have your back - - as long as your record is clean? Hell. No. > > What makes you think NK will do that? Otto Warmbier would be one guess. By the time he was shipped back to the US he was severely brain-damaged and dying. But Warmbier’s not the only person abused while in North Korea custody. In the US when you’re arrested you get read your right, in North Korea when you get arrested they seem to start with a beating and go from there. > [@Dorjan](#): > > That was different. In NK’s eyes, Otto committed a grave crime while in NK on a tour. A defection of a US soldier is a propaganda win for them, they aren’t going to torture the guy. [Charles Robert Jenkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Robert_Jenkins) might dispute that. In addition to the beatings and other mistreatment by the time he was able to leave North Korea he was missing a testicle and part of a tattoo. Pretty sure he didn’t willingly give up the first and the latter was removed without anesthesia and probably without consent. And he was the defector they actually treated “well”, including making sure he and his family had at least some food during the Arduous March. (Should I mention that his marriage was not his idea? He was forced to marry a kidnapped Japanese national) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/46 "2023-07-20T12:19:01Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The U.S. has a history of looking out for the interests of its citizens abroad even when they do stupid things like this guy. Citizens but much more so soldiers. The US will do everything possible to bring him back (then presumably throw the book at him). “Everything possible” is not all that much of course, so he could be looking at being entertained by the security forces of North Korean for a long time. Its not clear how they will end up treating him, one end of the spectrum is [Otto Warmbier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier) the other [Charles Jenkins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Robert_Jenkins). Probably the latter is more likely? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/47 "2023-07-20T12:43:36Z")
We should start by asking North Korea to extradite him. They won’t, of course, but it sets the right tone: This guy willingly entered North Korea of his own volition, in order to evade consequences for a crime. If he hadn’t committed a crime (and keep in mind, going AWOL was also a crime), and had willingly entered North Korea, then our response would, I hope, be simply “Sorry you made bad life choices, sucks to be you”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/48 "2023-07-20T12:58:55Z")
if i were a high-level defector (not necessarily to North Korea, could be anywhere), of course I would expect the military to do everything in their power to get me back and court-martial me for treason, and to have to formally request political asylum to try to ensure they could not. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/49 "2023-07-20T13:04:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > citizens but much more so soldiers…The US will do everything possible to bring him back Yes, for American soldiers captured overseas, or civilians imprisoned unjustly. (like that woman’s basketball star held by Russia ) But in this case, the blame is clearly 100 percent on the soldier ,for his stupid and totally voluntary choice of action. The American public isn’t going to feel any sympathy for him, and US politicians know it… There will be some strong words from the State Dept saying that they hold N.Korea responsible for his safety, etc. But I don’t expect much more than that. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/50 "2023-07-20T13:17:25Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > if i were a high-level defector… Not really at issue here. Anyway, it’s all a bit ironic given your user name. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/51 "2023-07-20T13:35:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We should start by asking North Korea to extradite him. They won’t, of course, but it sets the right tone: I’m not so sure. Their smart move is to say, sure, and here’s a list of our deserters for you to extradite back to us. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/52 "2023-07-20T13:44:58Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But in this case, the blame is clearly 100 percent on the soldier ,for his stupid and totally voluntary choice of action. Doesn’t matter, AFAIK its still US policy to everything possible to bring him back (as in the case of [Bowe Berdahl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowe_Bergdahl) though that case seems much less cut and dried than this one, in that there are different versions of the circumstances surrounding his going missing). Of course its pretty academic, as the US government saying “Meh whatever, its his own fault” would have about the same result as saying “We will do everything in our power to bring him home!” He’ll come home when North Korea considered political expedient to do so. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/53 "2023-07-20T13:57:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Also, when and if he eventually gets back to the States he will face the exact discipline he’s currently evading, and then some. Not [what happened to Jenkins](https://www.vice.com/en/article/jm4k78/all-slammer-no-glamour-the-reluctant-north-korean-film-star): > [@](#): > > My time in prison was like a vacation! Remember, I was still technically a sergeant when I left North Korea, so they still had to pay me… I was in prison getting paid! Every day I was in there I was working with intelligence anyway – it was all a big set-up for the outside world so it looked like justice was done. After all, I betrayed my country and people wanted to see me get punished for that – but I was just helping the government with what I knew. They just gave me the shortest sentence possible with a week off for good behaviour so it didn’t seem like I was let off the hook." The Secretary of Defense says that his “foremost” concern is “the welfare of our troop.” Surely the Army is listening. So IMHO this guy will face no real punishment from our side, if repatriated. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/54 "2023-07-20T15:11:42Z")
I would hope there would be at least a token incarceration if only to allow for a thorough psych eval. But i also hope they’ll take into account whatever he had suffered in NK. At a minimum, he is eating less now than ever before in his life. And i wouldn’t be surprised if his SK crimes are taken very seriously in NK. They consider themselves to be wrongly divided from their cousins in the South. Reunification is always the goal. So his best case scenario would be them releasing him to face SK justice. I expect he will be very “energetically questioned” over several months. :shudder: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/55 "2023-07-20T15:23:02Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I’m not so sure. > > Their smart move is to say, sure, and here’s a list of our deserters for you to extradite back to us. If they release him before they get their deserters, then we just say “Thanks but no thanks, those folks haven’t broken any of our laws, so we won’t extradite them”, and we get this dude back for free. If they wait to release him until after we send back their deserters, then we say the same thing, and it’s functionally the same thing as them saying no. Either way, of course, they’ll spin it for domestic propaganda, but they were going to do that no matter what happened, and I don’t see why we should care much about their domestic propaganda anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/56 "2023-07-20T15:29:51Z")
This guy does not appear to be the sharpest tool in the shed. Who knows NK may end up offering something else to us, if we will take him back. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/57 "2023-07-20T16:01:39Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > And i wouldn’t be surprised if his SK crimes are taken very seriously in NK. They consider themselves to be wrongly divided from their cousins in the South. Reunification is always the goal. So his best case scenario would be them releasing him to face SK justice. He already did his SK time (other than any SK penalty for running to NK, if that’s a crime). ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/58 "2023-07-20T16:16:00Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Doesn’t matter, AFAIK its still US policy to everything possible to bring him back (as in the case of [Bowe Berdahl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowe_Bergdahl) though that case seems much less cut and dried than this one, in that there are different versions of the circumstances surrounding his going missing). Plus, with Bergdahl, if he hadn’t been recovered, he’d have ended up as the lone MIA from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Every couple of years, we’d be subject to some new story about “what really happened” or reports that “I saw him in Tucson just last week. He was driving a convertible and looked from his hair cut like he was still in the military, maybe working undercover.” Every remembrance of the War in Afghanistan would end with a solemn pledge to “never rest” until our “MIA” is (singular) returned home, followed by a back and forth shouting match over whether he was really MIA or a deserter. Now, thankfully, we won’t be subjected to that. Proof enough that though our times may be dark, this is not the darkest possible timeline. We can all skip the goatees. > [@TruCelt](#): > > I would hope there would be at least a token incarceration if only to allow for a thorough psych eval. But i also hope they’ll take into account whatever he had suffered in NK. You can be confident he will be kept on active duty pending disposition of appropriate administrative and criminal proceedings, with plenty of poking and prodding by medical professionals of all stripes, including mental health. > [@susan](#): > > He already did his SK time (other than any SK penalty for running to NK, if that’s a crime). :shrug: Maybe it’s a crime to misbehave in the DMZ? Or some kind of immigration offense to overstay in the ROK after the military sent him through customs and revoked his status as part of US Forces Korea or whatever. I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere between the airport and the DMZ some kind of immigration-related crime was committed. But I suspect the ROK won’t care a whole lot, just so long as, if he’s returned to South Korea, he’s promptly put on a plane bound for the US–under escort the whole way this time. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/59 "2023-07-20T17:53:00Z")
Jenkins was held in North Korea for _39 years_. I think the Army decided that that was punishment enough. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/60 "2023-07-20T18:01:54Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > I think the Army decided that that was punishment enough. He also supposedly provided information to Military Intelligence about North Korea, so most likely got a deal based on that as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=4)