# American soldier crosses into North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221 "2023-07-18T16:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/61 "2023-07-20T18:29:23Z")
He was also sentenced to forfeiture of all pay and allowances, reduction to the lowest enlisted grade, and a dishonorable discharge. I’m not sure why @PhillyGuy has it in his head that military defectors go unpunished. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/62 "2023-07-20T20:09:45Z")
This guy doesn’t seem like the spiciest cabbage in the kimchi, but mightn’t getting him back be a good source of intelligence on what’s going on in North Korea? I say, hold negotiations at a leisurely pace, and upon eventual release, ship him straight to the CIA for a long debrief. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/63 "2023-07-20T20:18:46Z")
Pretty sure there is a slow trickle of people making it out with much greater (lifelong) experience living in NK who would be more useful. This isn’t cloak and dagger, long con, four dimensional chess. It’s a stupid idiot who couldn’t figure out the rules to checkers, and in a fuss overturned the board, threw both his shoes through a window, stepped out onto the glass, and then decided the dumpster fire across the street seemed like a more inviting place to hang out for the rest of his life. Doubtless he will be debriefed, if he returns. But I don’t for a minute expect he’ll be in a position to provide anyone with special knowledge of things on _either side_ of the DMZ (or the Pacific, for that matter). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/64 "2023-07-20T20:29:29Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Pretty sure there is a slow trickle of people making it out with much greater (lifelong) experience living in NK who would be more useful. Especially given that he’s going to get the Potemkin view of North Korea, not the real thing. I mean, there’s still nonzero intelligence value in that, but it’s not very nonzero. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/65 "2023-07-20T20:30:07Z")
Yes, but aren’t most of that slow trickle people who grew up in North Korea? I would think that even an idiot American would have quite a different perspective, and different things that get noticed. I’m well on the side of “this is an idiot and sometimes that has consequences,” but that doesn’t mean he can’t be useful. I wouldn’t imagine he’d change the equation much, but I think an American who is completely uninformed about past North Korea might be useful in assessing present North Korea. But if I were in the US administration, it probably wouldn’t be uppermost in my priority list. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/66 "2023-07-20T20:39:03Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > But if I were in the US administration, it probably wouldn’t be uppermost in my priority list. Sure. Just because all you’ve got is a turnip doesn’t mean you don’t squeeze it for all it’s \*worth if what you really need is juice. But it’s still trying to get juice from a turnip. \*Not knowing much about turnips beyond the saying, I’m going to assume you can at least get some minuscule non-zero amount of juice from a turnip. ETA: I have since learned hat the actual expression is “blood from a turnip” which must surely be impossible. Please consider what I meant, not what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/67 "2023-07-20T21:04:18Z")
He has more intelligence value for the North, if only because he will have practically zero for the South upon repatriation. He’s just a dumb kid, who was in a lot of trouble to begin with. There is a hallowed tradition of “never leave a comrade behind”, but this sentiment does not apply, apples and aircraft carriers, and is not going to get a lot of traction to willing defectors like Berghdahl or this clown. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/68 "2023-07-20T22:24:56Z")
So, maybe off-topic, but how does promotion from PV2 to the next level, and the next level, work in the military? Do you have to demonstrate yourself to be unusually _good_ to **get** promoted, or do you have to demonstrate yourself to be unusually _bad_ to **not** get promoted? Same question for promotion to the higher ranks as well - captain, colonel, admiral, etc. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/69 "2023-07-20T23:55:48Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > The Secretary of Defense says that his “foremost” concern is “the welfare of our troop.” Surely the Army is listening. So IMHO this guy will face no real punishment from our side, if repatriated. Your understanding of the situation is … lacking in context. Former USAF officer here. … IMO we get him back somehow, he goes on UCMJ trial for whatever he was going to be tried for before he ran, plus desertion / AWOL, etc., from the running to NK. Then he’s found either guilty or not guilty of those military crimes, after which if guilty he’s incarcerated per the appropriate regs then dishonorably discharged, or if not guilty drummed out of the service with an administrative (IOW neutral) discharge. The SecDef is not saying this guy is a hero to be rescued. He’s saying this guy is an American to be returned to the US forces to be dealt with accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/70 "2023-07-21T00:51:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So, maybe off-topic, but how does promotion from PV2 to the next level, and the next level, work in the military? This has the ring of truth: [How Do Army Automatic Promotions Work?](https://work.chron.com/army-automatic-promotions-work-29214.html) > [@](#): > > If you enlist in the Army at the E-1 pay grade as a private or PV1, the first few promotions occur automatically. Automatic promotions stop at the E-4 pay grade or specialist or SPC rank. . . . > > The second promotion from Private PV2 to Private First Class or PFC occurs after at least 12 months of total military service and at least four months as a Private PV2. The final automatic promotion from PFC to SPC occurs after the soldier serves at least six months at the PFC rank and at least 24 months of total Army service. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > The SecDef is not saying this guy is a hero to be rescued. He’s saying this guy is an American to be returned to the US forces to be dealt with accordingly. From a layman standpoint, he didn’t say either one. He may have meant what you say, with his wording largely dictated by legal advice to avoid unlawful command influence on military justice. I’ve mostly been thinking about how this plays politically if it goes on for a long time, as these things usually do. Spending a lot of resources to get this guy back may not be in anyone’s interest except Kim Jun Un [and his friends](https://www.stripes.com/theaters/asia_pacific/2022-09-29/trump-kim-letters-north-korea-7509455.html). (Repatriation could also be in Private King’s interest, but I don’t assume it. For all I know, he had unauthorized contacts with North Koreans before his DMZ caper.) Re: [US does not know current location or ‘condition’ of soldier who fled to North Korea](https://www.aol.com/news/us-does-not-know-where-185125784.html) I think that if my federal government knows his location and condition, that is classified on grounds of somehow giving away our methods of intelligence collection. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/71 "2023-07-21T01:18:17Z")
Why would we waste any resources getting him back? Leave him there with his new buddies. He made a choice and now he has to live with it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/72 "2023-07-21T01:31:27Z")
Soldiers are different from citizens and from ordinary federal employees. King may be a bozo, but he’s a bozo in uniform. We will recover the uniform, or the ideals it represents, even if we don’t greatly care about recovering the bozo inside the uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/73 "2023-07-21T01:45:46Z")
As I understand it, there’s a limit to the time you can spend at any rank. For the lower ranks, if you don’t screw up, after that amount of time you advance to the next higher rank. At some point, of course, there just isn’t room for that many high-ranking people, so promotion stops being automatic… but there’s still a limit on how long you’ll spend at your current rank. It’s “up-or-out”: If you don’t make whatever the cut is for a promotion, then it’s time for you to retire from the Service, and either way, you make room for the guy below you to be promoted. If you’re really extraordinary, or find yourself in extraordinary circumstances, the course of promotions can be sped up. But it can’t really be slowed down. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/74 "2023-07-21T02:00:24Z")
As a former member of the US Army I totally agree with you. And I was there in '76 when we almost went to war with NK ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/75 "2023-07-21T02:08:15Z")
So, i’ll just register my prediction that the GOP will ramp this up as a huge deal to recover our man. And further, that Kim will hold onto him in hopes of delivering Trump an opening triumph “when” he is re-elected. Another gambit that informed citizens will see right through, and MAGAts will swallow hook line and sinker. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/76 "2023-07-21T02:13:35Z")
> [@susan](#): > > He already did his SK time (other than any SK penalty for running to NK, if that’s a crime). Punishments in NK are far greater than those in the South. Assuming that they will accept the South’s jail term is just overly optimistic. NK sends people to concentration camps for decades, just for being related to a criminal. And again, their citizens are starving again. Will they choose to feed this guy? Or send him to the camp? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/77 "2023-07-21T02:28:51Z")
Agree but I believe it will be before the election. DJT, the brilliant deal maker, and his beloved Rocket Man that he fell in love with, will conspire for headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/78 "2023-07-21T04:46:35Z")
As I recall while a recruit may have been enlisted as a PV1 but they didn’t stay that way very long. E-nothing, or nothing on the uniform just looks wrong. A stripe may have been automatic after even just a few weeks in basic training or something like that. Getting busted back down, well that takes special dedicated effort. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/79 "2023-07-21T04:56:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Why would we waste any resources getting him back? > > Leave him there with his new buddies. He made a choice and now he has to live with it. Do you have any empathy for someone who made a bad decision during a psychotic breakdown? He wasn’t in his right mind. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/80 "2023-07-21T05:17:53Z")
I don’t think we can necessarily say that he was having a “psychotic breakdown.” While defecting to North Korea may seem to be prima facie evidence of mental impairment, we simply don’t know enough about his state of mind and motivation to evaluate. I see this, though, as all the more reason to seek his return. So that a court martial can determine – as far as possible – the facts surrounding his actions that day and recommend consequences commensurate with the standards of military justice. Seems more just than relying on the verdict of internet randos skimming articles, anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=5)