# American soldier crosses into North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221 "2023-07-18T16:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/101 "2023-07-22T01:47:45Z")
Maybe he was a nut, maybe he was thug, maybe he was just a teenager with crappy impulse control & a shitty backstory. Gosh knows the Army (and DOD in general) has grown, matured, and rehabilitated vast numbers of the latter over the years. In any case we’ll retrieve him and deal with whatever his issues are and the crappy life decisions he’s made. Including the decision to join the Army. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/102 "2023-07-22T03:29:09Z")
Is what he did considered a defection? In which case, is he still an American citizen? Or does he have to make a formal declaration? If it’s a military policy of no man left behind does that include defectors? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/103 "2023-07-22T03:47:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In any case we’ll retrieve him… I think what’s more likely is we’ll ask for him back. Whether we ever get him back is entirely up to NK. I doubt very much we’ll “retrieve” him (which would suggest some level of agency on our part). ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/104 "2023-07-22T03:49:55Z")
Those other American defectors were even got given wives after they went up there. But the NK officials didn’t want them mixing with pureblooded Korean women, so ethnically the women were a diverse group. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/105 "2023-07-22T04:14:40Z")
A Romanian woman was kidnapped to be the bride of defected American soldier Joe Dresnok. They had two sons, who still live in North Korea. Youtube link: [N. Korea showcases sons of U.S. defector in video - YouTube](https://youtu.be/IEB6gKGHrNE/) ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/106 "2023-07-22T04:17:55Z")
So in addition to being a defector, he was a rapist. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/107 "2023-07-22T12:02:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Is what he did considered a defection? In which case, is he still an American citizen? Or does he have to make a formal declaration? He’d have to declare it a defection for it to be one. But that does not result in loss of birthright citizenship. If he was a naturalized US citizen, it might lead towards denaturalization proceedings, but that’s yet another court case, not some simple administrative action or automatic change. Right now he’s an AWOL dumbass with a pending UCMJ prosecution. Nothing more exciting than that. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/108 "2023-07-22T12:48:09Z")
All this has me wondering what training US troops are given about NK when they are stationed near the DMZ. How much do they know about conditions up there? Are they only told the DMZ safety procedures, or do they get a true picture of life in NK? ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/109 "2023-07-22T13:37:10Z")
The soldiers stationed there are well trained, but this guy wasn’t one of those “tip of the spear” kind of guys if I had to guess. Anyone know his MOS? I think the breakdown at one level occurred in this gentleman’s chain of command, they dropped the ball by not ensuring his happy ass was physically on the plane. I’d also wonder about the level of screening for the DMZ tours, he travelled as a “civilian”, but technically this was not the case. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/110 "2023-07-22T14:19:32Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > I’d also wonder about the level of screening for the DMZ tours, he travelled as a “civilian”, but technically this was not the case. I think I may have incorrectly said it was a civilian tour earlier in the thread. But later I read it was a USO tour: [US soldier’s NK defection raises alarm over JSA tour security](https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230719000673) > [@](#): > > According to information provided by one tour company, Travis appears to have participated in a “special tour run by the United Service Organizations,” a nonprofit organization that operates independently from the US Department of Defense. I guess there could still be some confusion about the tour type. As far as I know, my last link is from a careful snewspaper. But the news is still the first draft of history. NK is still under COVID lock down, so he’s probably under quarantine. That’s one reason we may not hear anything for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/111 "2023-07-22T15:01:28Z")
The news reports quoted a Swedish national on the tour. I got the impression it was a “civilian” tour anyway. By that I mean civilians allowed on the tour. USO is only loosely a military organization. The Salvation Army probably has greater firepower. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/112 "2023-07-22T15:39:09Z")
I remember 60 minutes or 20/20 did a piece on the DMZ. There have been incidents in the JSA where NK tried pulling military personnel over the line to their side. A lot of crazy and frightening crap has happened in the JSA because of the close proximity to NK personnel. Wikipedia has a list of incidents that has been publicly acknowledged. There’s probably more that aren’t publicly known. > **[Joint Security Area](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Security_Area)** > > The Joint Security Area (JSA, often referred to as the Truce Village or Panmunjom) is the only portion of the Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) where North and South Korean forces stand face-to-face. The JSA is used by the two Koreas for diplomatic engagements and, until March 1991, was also the site of military negotiations between North Korea and the United Nations Command (UNC). > The JSA has been the site of numerous events and incidents since its establishment in 1953, the first of which was ... ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/113 "2023-07-22T16:20:25Z")
We used to fly up there quite frequently. One of the things they had been doing was a dick waving contest on which side had the largest flag. So you can see either from about 10 miles away. What I noticed, is while most borders between countries with few exceptions are not at all apparent from the air, North Korea definitely looked more arid or barren and abused, somehow, far into the north. Not just the immediate areas on the border itself or laid out into minefields or clear fields of fire, it just looks different up there. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/114 "2023-07-22T16:29:52Z")
I’m going to object to this without more information. While the circumstances of their marriage were forced, we don’t know how they came to feel about each other. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/115 "2023-07-22T17:10:47Z")
If even US **civilians** know North Korea’s a hellhole, I’m sure U.S. military personnel stationed near NK know 10x better. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/116 "2023-07-22T17:53:36Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’m going to object to this without more information. While the circumstances of their marriage were forced, we don’t know how they came to feel about each other. And I’m going to go exactly the other way. She was kidnapped to be a bride. Absent extraordinary evidence to the contrary, I take it as presumptive that her “husband” could not reasonably have ascertained meaningful consent on her part under such circumstances. It’s like something out of _The Handmaid’s Tale_. Some real Gilead-level shit. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/117 "2023-07-22T18:06:29Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > NK is still under COVID lock down, so he’s probably under quarantine. That’s one reason we may not hear anything for a while. Oh Lord, i hadn’t thought of that. He broke their super-strict quarantine laws. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/118 "2023-07-22T18:08:07Z")
As I have mentioned I was in South Korea 1976-7. We were very well trained. With the MOS I had I wasn’t even allowed to go to the DMZ. We were taught to be very security conscious. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/119 "2023-07-22T18:10:38Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > We were taught to be very security conscious. Right. But did they teach you about how hard life was in NK? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/120 "2023-07-22T18:16:06Z")
Well, we did hear about a famine that was supposed to be going on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=7)