# American soldier crosses into North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 18, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221 "2023-07-18T16:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/161 "2023-07-24T16:13:22Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Another thing: the articled referred to him as a Private Second Class. That’s not a rank in our Army. He’s a Private (E-2). There are two ranks of ‘private’ – E-1 with no insignia and E-2 with a single chevron. I took the ‘second-class’ to mean E-1 which, as been pointed out, means after two years a less than sterling career is indicated. The promotion from E-1 to E-2 is pretty automatic after about six months’ enlistment. He may have been busted to E-1 after being released from the ROK prison prior to being shipped stateside to get mustered out. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/162 "2023-07-24T17:28:28Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Normal PCS (permanent change of station) moves are on commercial flights. Sometimes from overseas they are military charter flights on civilian airlines. Even when I was deployed to Iraq we flew on a civilian plane from Texas to Kuwait. The only part of the flight that was on an Air Force transport was from Kuwait to Baghdad. > > Space A flights like you are describing are often just cargo planes with a few extra seats. This is forty years ago but when I flew PCS into and back from Keflavik, Iceland it was [MAC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Airlift_Command) both ways. IIRC the only civilian airline into the country was [Loftleiðir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Airlines) which wouldn’t have the capacity. Okinawa it was MAC there and a contract flight (PanAm) back. The MAC flights were on regular-looking airliners – albeit no frills – there were dependents on board who would not do well with a cargo-plane jump seat. The seats did face rearwards. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/163 "2023-07-24T17:47:34Z")
Like you my experience is forty years back but on the way to Korea I was on a commercial flight. When I returned it was a MAC flight, and we had to be in uniform. This was just before pant uniform for women were general issue so I had to wear a skirt. Sprawling out was dicey, so we would use a blanket for cover. And we would let out hair down, but had to put it up again before landing. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/164 "2023-07-24T21:44:15Z")
I flew out to Japan in 2005 on AMC (the successor to MAC). It was an all-military civilian airliner charter flight out of LAX. If memory serves, I flew back from Japan (twice) commercial. As for the second time getting to Japan (what allowed me to fly home from Japan twice, not counting leave which was always commercial), well, that was by ship. I honestly can’t remember how I got to Bahrain. I suspect it was commercial, but I know there was a weekly (or twice weekly?) AMC “rotator” flight. I just don’t think I ever took it. Now, for how I got back from Bahrain… well naturally I took a cab from Fujairah to Dubai, and then from Dubai hopped a commercial flight to DC. Naturally. Iraq was military charter (AMC again) between the US and either Germany or Ireland, but for the life of me I can’t remember how I got into or out of Kuwait. And then with Iraq, well… an assortment of military fixed and rotary wing aircraft, and also by convoy a few times. But truly, I don’t believe I’ve ever walked or run into another country. I wasn’t infantry, after all. Or, for that matter, a defector. Oh, the things I’ve seen… ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/165 "2023-07-24T22:42:56Z")
Several years ago, I heard about “McNamara’s Morons”, where the IQ required for military enlistment declined drastically, and the character “Zero” in the “Beetle Bailey” comic strip was inspired by this. > [@McNamara's Morons, aka Project 100,000 (recruiting mentally challenged people during Vietnam)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcnamaras-morons-aka-project-100-000-recruiting-mentally-challenged-people-during-vietnam/823872): > > I had never heard of this until last night; in short, during the Vietnam era, and to a lesser extent in the Iraq/Afghanistan era, the military lowered their standards to a point where people with significantly subnormal IQs were admitted into the military, and usually given KP or other noncombat duties, if they made it through boot camp at all. Here’s a 36-minute speech from someone who wrote a book about it. [[McNamara's Folly: The Use of Low-IQ Troops in the Vietnam War] ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J2VwFDV4-g) If you… ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/166 "2023-07-24T22:47:22Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > There are two ranks of ‘private’ – E-1 with no insignia and E-2 with a single chevron. I took the ‘second-class’ to mean E-1 which, as been pointed out, means after two years a less than sterling career is indicated. I asked by son-in-law who retired from the Army National Guard (after deployments) about two years ago. He said that an E-2 can be called a private second class. Obviously, from this thread, that phrase isn’t used everywhere in the Army. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/167 "2023-07-24T23:08:53Z")
Private Second Class, while not an official US Army rank, would be E-2/PV2. > **[U.S. Army Private Second Class - Pay Grade and Rank Details](https://www.federalpay.org/military/army/private-second-class)** > > The pay rates, history, and requirements of a U.S. Army Private Second Class ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/168 "2023-07-25T00:17:43Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > > [@flurb](#): > > > > Apparently he’d been facing some sort of disciplinary action, but how can ANYONE think this is a good solution to your problems? > > Well, if he handled all of his other decision making this badly, it’s easy to see why he is in a world of trouble with his own military. His fine decision-making included assaulting a Korean national off-base. And this wasn’t his first discipline run-in with the Army either. Making the dash into NK seems like about par for his pitiful course. Losers gonna lose. It’s what they do. It was just his bad luck he was leaving Korea and not e.g. Germany or Alaska, where cutting and running would have had less drastic consequences for him. And oh by the way for DoD. Although I really think this guy is going to get utterly lost in the sauce of overall US / NK relations. Except for him Mom, nobody will miss him. US will make some ritual requests, which NK will ritually ignore. The glaring lights of media attention will move on and so will everyone except PV2 King. Who will be learning a lesson. Perhaps administered verrrrry slowly, or perhaps he’s already had his final lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/169 "2023-07-25T12:01:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Except for him Mom, nobody will miss him. Maybe … LOL Mother Jasmine: Thank God I finally got rid of him! 😈 ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/170 "2023-07-25T20:13:21Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It happened to my friend’s father who was in a street gang. He went to Korea during the war and then retired from the military 20+ years later. My former brother in law had a choice of Marines, early’70s, or a jail sentence for his second or third car theft. He opted Marines and spent a year or so in Okinawa, never made it to Vietnam. Came back as big of an asshole as he was when he went in. My sister divorced him when he was overseas. He got arrested several times for beating up his wife and kids. Finally just disappeared. Ran into one of his sons a few years back, no love lost there. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/171 "2023-07-26T01:35:16Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Private Second Class, while not an official US Army rank, would be E-2/PV2. > [https://www.federalpay.org/military/army/private-second-class](https://www.federalpay.org/military/army/private-second-class) That’s not a government site even though it sort of looks like one. Private Second Class is not a thing. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/172 "2023-07-26T02:08:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Losers gonna lose. It’s what they do. I am fervently and sincerely hoping this works to his advantage for once. As I said up thread, I really do hope NK quickly realizes what a loser he is, how utterly worthless he will be as an intelligence or propaganda asset if he remains in NK, and kindly kicks his ass (metaphorically would do, to be sure) back over the line and into US, ROK, or UN custody in short order. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/173 "2023-07-26T02:08:35Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Private Second Class is not a thing. It is not an official thing, as I stated in the post you quoted and also earlier in the thread. It should be noted, though, that there are many instances of “[Private Second Class](https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmy.mil+%22private+second+class%22)” and “[Private 2nd Class](https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aarmy.mil+%22private+2nd+class%22)” being used in articles on the US Army’s official website. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/174 "2023-07-26T07:32:35Z")
What would the North Koreans be able to discover by debriefing/interrogating him? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/175 "2023-07-26T07:41:57Z")
Information about the soldiers in his group and how they trained and what they told him about NK and all sorts of other small things. Most intelligence isn’t getting one big break but putting together all sorts of small puzzle pieces. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/176 "2023-07-26T11:59:30Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I really do hope NK quickly realizes what how utterly worthless he will be as an asset if he remains in NK, and kindly kicks his ass back over the line He could be quite useful to North Korea. If one of their soldiers manages to escape to the south, The North K’s could say “give us our soldier back, and we’ll give you your soldier back.” If not,your soldier dies. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/177 "2023-07-26T12:02:54Z")
That’s rather unlikely. There have been a few US service members who have made their way over there and considerably more DPRK soldiers who made their way south (directly and/or through China). Nothing like “let’s swap or we’ll kill 'em” has ever been suggested. They may not be warm, fuzzy people, but they’re not dumb. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/178 "2023-07-26T12:27:42Z")
[aside] Back back when we would ocassionally refer to some less than stellar peers at Basic as “Private, No Class”. But yeah, the way some people’s minds work, there’s a Private First Class so there should be a Second Class, right? – though if you ask why the same thing doesn’t happen to sergeants, they may be confused. What trips them is that there is an actual “2” written in the Private(2)/PV2 rank designation of the second E- _ **grade** _ , but then you really would want to say “Private, 2nd _Grade_” if you wanted precision, wouldn’t you. (Plus of course there’s the notion that every single pay grade must have a distinct specific named rank to it, if not four). Sort of the same way the SPC kept being called a “Specialist 4th Class” in colloquial reference for decades after there was no such thing (though at least in that case there had been that once.) [/aside] ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/179 "2023-07-26T20:33:40Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > What would the North Koreans be able to discover by debriefing/interrogating him? Not much really. He was a low level Cavalry Scout. Anything you need to know about Cav Scouts you can learn online. The tactics aren’t anything special. For the most part US troops were pulled off of the DMZ and the footprint in the country is much smaller. He’ll be able to tell them his favorite bar in The Ville. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221/180 "2023-07-27T14:59:18Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > What trips them is that there is an actual “2” written in the Private(2)/PV2 rank designation of the second E- _ **grade** _ , but then you really would want to say “Private, 2nd _Grade_” if you wanted precision, wouldn’t you. And to make it more confusing, a “Private First Class” is not a PV1. Rather, it’s the third rank. The number of military ranks seems to consistently grow with time, and sometimes, it grows faster than the list of new names for the ranks. So you end up either piling on adjectives to the ranks, or attaching numbers to them, or the like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-soldier-crosses-into-north-korea/987221.md?page=10)