# American state capitals **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 15, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477 "2004-06-15T15:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/41 "2004-06-16T01:54:31Z")
West Virginia got its start during the civil war. For you non-US dopers out there, Virginia was a southern state that seceded from the union. West Virginia was formed by Virginians who wanted to stay loyal to the union. Initially, the capital was in Wheeling, which is in the northern part of the state. This was a good place for it during the war, since it was about as far away from the border with the “enemy” (Virginia) as you can get and still be in the state. After the war, the capital was moved to Charleston, which was chosen because it is geographically in the center of the state. Folks at the time feared that Wheeling would be too biased against the southern parts of the state, which was why the capital was moved to a more central location. ---
**Author:** ![vexinvixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/df705f/32.png) [@vexinvixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vexinvixen)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/42 "2004-06-16T02:32:39Z")
> [@Da Cissy Pimp](#): > > As someone who lives outside the States (I live in Australia to be precise), I’ve long been puzzled by the way that the capitals of a lot of American states aren’t really the cities that you’d expect them to be (ie the biggest and/or most well-known city in the state in question, as is the case over where I live). For example, why is California’s capital Sacramento, rather than LA or San Francisco? Why is the capital of Illinois Springfield rather than Chicago? Why is the capital of Texas Austin rather than, say, Dallas or Houston? (I have visited Austin, incidentally, and found it a lovely place, so I’m not trying to bash it.) And so on. Why does this seem to be the case so often? Was there a special system used to determine which city in every state would be its capital (a friend of mine said there might have been - one based on geography - but I’m not sure if this is true)? Also, while I’m on the subject of these sorts of idiosyncrasies, why isn’t Kansas City actually in Kansas? I live in the capital of NH, Concord. It is not the largest city in the state. Here’s what I found on one of the state webpages: The Capital: Concord, our state capital, was settled in 1727 and at that time was called Penacook. In 1733 it was incorporated as Rumford. This name was changed to Concord in 1765. State government moved to Concord in 1808 after residing in the seacoast town of Portsmouth for more than half a century (except when Exeter was the capital during the Revolutionary War). The Statehouse was built in 1819 and remains the oldest statehouse in the nation in which the Legislature continues to meet in its original chambers. By the way, this is NOT the Concord of Lexington and Concord – that’s in Massachusetts. And it’s NOT pronounced “con-CORD.” More as if you were saying, “I came, I saw, I conquered.” Some old Yankees say something that sounds more like “con-kid.” We also have the largest state legislature, and probably the most poorly paid. The Concord coach – seen in so many westerns – was made right here in Concord, in fact about a 3 minute walk from my door. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/43 "2004-06-16T06:33:18Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > California’s capital under Spanish and Mexican rule was Monterrey. Following 1849, legislatures passed through San Jose (the “legislature of 1000 drinks”), Vallejo and Benicia before settling in Sacremento in 1854. > > There’s actually a lot to be said for NOT having your capital be a major population or commercial center. … Don’t forget the turn-of-the-century bid by Berkeley to be capital. The city carved narrow winding roads all through the previously undeveloped hills in the northeast part of the city, naming each road after a different California county. One particularly quixotic street, Marin Avenue, runs arrow-straight into the hills, reaching grades of 25% or more. At the base of the hills (at the base of Marin Avenue, in fact) is a traffic circle with a fountain. Given the crowds, the presence of the University, and the bizarre street layout, I shudder to think what Berkeley would have been like as capital today. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/44 "2004-06-16T10:00:24Z")
On the subject of Canberra, this spot between Melbourne and Sydney was chosen for the nation’'s capital mainly to settle the argument between the two cities over which should be chosen. That’s according to Bill Bryson, anyway. Note that other countries have moved their capitals from the “obvious” town to a more central location - e.g., Tanzania moved the capital from Dar es Salaam on the coast to the small town of Dodoma in the interior, and Nigeria moved its capital from Lagos to Abuja. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/45 "2004-06-16T12:00:58Z")
This Thread is doing pretty well without me, but since it is a state-themed Thread nearing 50 replies I thought I’d throw in my 2cents. 50 States, 50 Replies, anyone? 😛 > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Politics. People who lived outside of the largest city often worried that the distance would keep them from having their rightful say. > [@acsenray](#): > > In the United States, there is a long history of political one-upmanship between the cities and the countryside. Historically, rural areas have disproportionate power in legislatures (state and federal)\* and they wanted to keep the capital away from those damn city folks. Just to add a little historical context to these comments by \*\* RealityChuck \*\* and \*\* acsenray \*\*, Americans as individuals are often worried that their interests won’t be represented as well as the other guy’s interests. This is the whole reason we have a bicameral legislature. The small states, in _their_ best interest, suggested “Hey, to be fair every state should have equal representation in the federal government!” while the larger, more populous states, in _their_ best interest, suggested “Hey, to be fair every state should be represented according to population.” So, the solution was reached that there would be two houses in the legislature, one with equal representation for each state (the Senate) and one with representation based on population (House of Representatives). Likewise, we finally ended up with the national capitol of Washington because no state wanted the capitol to be in any other state. The District of Columbia was created so that the capitol would not be in any state at all. It was placed between Maryland and Virginia because folks from the North didn’t want the capitol to be in the South and people from the South didn’t want the capitol to be in the North. The compromises were reached to make everyone feel they were properly represented. The lives and interests of most Pennsylvanians differ immensely from the lives and interests of the people of Philadelphia. Philadelphia, because of it’s size, has tremendous influence already. If it were the capitol, rural Pennsylvanians would worry that they would not be heard. Move the state capitol from Sacramento to Los Angeles? My God! We’d end up with a movie star for Governor! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/46 "2004-06-16T12:16:22Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > 1. State pride. Georgia moved its capital to Atlanta after the Civil War partly to show that Sherman’s burning their largest city wasn’t going to stop them (though Sherman burned Milledgeville, the antebellum capital, too). I’m sure Milledgeville is a very nice place, but doesn’t the name sound like something straight out of _Pogo_? ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Cissy\_Pimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Da\_Cissy\_Pimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Cissy_Pimp)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/47 "2004-06-16T14:18:54Z")
On the subject of countries whose capitals aren’t “the most obvious place”, Switzerland is another example that just occurred to me. Anyone know how Bern got to be its capital, rather than somewhere like, say, Geneva or Zurich? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/48 "2004-06-16T14:36:49Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Don’t forget the turn-of-the-century bid by Berkeley to be capital. The city carved narrow winding roads all through the previously undeveloped hills in the northeast part of the city, naming each road after a different California county. One particularly quixotic street, Marin Avenue, runs arrow-straight into the hills, reaching grades of 25% or more. At the base of the hills (at the base of Marin Avenue, in fact) is a traffic circle with a fountain. > > Given the crowds, the presence of the University, and the bizarre street layout, I shudder to think what Berkeley would have been like as capital today. I’m familiar with Marin Avenue. While I was living in the East Bay, I sold a coworker a car once. He tried it out and was satisfied with it, but his wife wouldn’t let him buy it until she could test it by driving it up Marin Avenue to Grizzly Peak Boulevard. It doesn’t actually end at the circle - it emerges from the other side and continues on as a more normal residential street. It’s in Albany at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/49 "2004-06-16T17:20:20Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Likewise, we finally ended up with the national capitol of Washington because no state wanted the capitol to be in any other state. The District of Columbia was created so that the capitol would not be in any state at all. It was placed between Maryland and Virginia because folks from the North didn’t want the capitol to be in the South and people from the South didn’t want the capitol to be in the North. Actually, this isn’t quite how it happened. Thomas Jefferson agreed to support certain banking legislation proposed by Alexander Hamilton in exchange for his agreement that the capital would be placed **in the south** , after which the site of Washington was chosen. At the time, that location between Maryland and Virginia was most definitely considered to be in the south, not in between the north and the south. As an aside, I hope no one minds the reminder that a capit\*\*o[/]l is a building. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/50 "2004-06-16T18:09:12Z")
Illinois has had a few capitals. Kaskaskia (I believe), Centralia, Vandalia and finally Springfield. Springfield is more or less in the center of the state. Of course, I could open up a Pit thread about how governor Rod Blagojevich is trying to move the capitol to Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/51 "2004-06-16T18:20:35Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > 50 States, 50 Replies, anyone? 😛 Columbia is 13 miles from the geographic center of SC. Any other state capitals that close? [Cite.](http://www.netstate.com/states/geography/sc_geography.htm) [Map.](http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&zoom=4&mapdata=UAm0U3b9NY1bMKFfrkewdn9DyP25a7ieqKYIjxWDtiYs2MKX0%2bXZusG8Jt6V9oiT551gWZ4%2bAW%2fztaB7OCpHHOsio2e4xmHAu0jjuWysWJCn1heWSnP2bCXfmrglhri6vVyvevdVWoXrcOp%2bgbglQc2yb6vKnWxRpr5PAKbbYWNhUaMNynHQHIJIUmDMyW1A4m%2bhurdxLtwfcpCzVlykA6JirVSrI2hQm1qmfQj7vTaAnDGbsNK9kCqF9UTGU2%2fc0E6PFsOCd0bpVY70Wy7OUgUmL7fvjr3XIndpBzRMHQtgrkan0pvaJrAAQOxu5pG4dfvb0n9FmUuX8E3Ro0uDb3bUznit3%2fMeUXpB8pu5rjDCudXbk6E%2fTGZuZcPh9Cmsk2rLL7uk%2bGfF9xH1dmEbn5puR97PlxDw4ig62w7MPdAyopYPslqmqLpO6T9HRWcHmXk1JFqXofv2u2eVvVva%2fiA8%2fm7GZKd%2flikz79VMgixEkg8PvQBAhw%3d%3d) ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/52 "2004-06-16T19:51:50Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Ottawa was chosen because Montreal, Toronto, Kingston, and Quebec City were fighting over who would become the capital of the new Province of Canada (basically Ontario and Quebec, pre-confederation, so Vancouver wasn’t an issue), and wouldn’t agree. So Queen Victoria gave it to none of them, and selected a lumber town that was roughly in the middle. Another factor was that Ottawa was some distance away from the US border. Since the Yanks had already invaded us twice (officially - more if you include the Fenians and such), this was a significant point at the time. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/53 "2004-06-16T20:13:00Z")
Then there’s Montana. Bribery, greed, pride, corruption—it’s got it all! The first territorial legislature (meeting in a dirt-roofed cabin in Bannack in 1864) made Virginia City the capital. It remained there until statehood in 1889, when it was decided for some reason that a new capital was in order. The selection was one aspect of the famous (in Montana, anyway) [War of the Copper Kings](http://www.missoulian.com/specials/100montanans/list/006.html) between William Clark (Helena) and Marcus Daly (Anaconda). Best guess is that they spent over six million dollars between them, and when the dust settled Helena—originally known as Last Chance Gulch, a name I personaly prefer—won. (Clark later bought a US Senate election, but was initially refused his seat by the leadership. He served one term, then was sent packing for good.) ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/54 "2004-06-16T23:25:50Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > On the subject of Canberra, this spot between Melbourne and Sydney was chosen for the nation’'s capital mainly to settle the argument between the two cities over which should be chosen. That’s according to Bill Bryson, anyway. Bill Bryson is right. The rivalry between Melbourne and Sydney was intense in the run up to federation. Each wanted to be the site of the new national capital. As a result, it was decided to build a new city, Canberra, to be the capital. There was a provision enshrined in the Australian constitution requiring Canberra to be at least 100 miles from Sydney and within its own federal jurisdiction. Section 125 reads: 1. The seat of Government of the Commonwealth shall be determined by the Parliament, and shall be within territory which shall have been granted to or acquired by the Commonwealth, and shall be vested in and belong to the Commonwealth, and shall be in the State of New South Wales, and be distant not less than one hundred miles from Sydney. Such territory shall contain an area of not less than one hundred square miles, and such portion thereof as shall consist of Crown lands shall be granted to the Commonwealth without any payment therefor. The Parliament shall sit at Melbourne until it meet at the seat of Government. ---
**Author:** ![easy\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@easy\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/easy_e)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/55 "2004-06-17T00:09:34Z")
> [@Bruce\_Daddy](#): > > Columbia is 13 miles from the geographic center of SC. Any other state capitals that close? Iowa with Des Moines is pretty close, but it’s more like 30 miles away from the geographic center. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/56 "2004-06-17T06:22:07Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Actually, this isn’t quite how it happened. Damn it! Why did I even bother going to school, just to find out that everything I was taught is wrong?! Where are our teachers getting “educated” anyway? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/57 "2004-06-17T17:40:55Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Actually, this isn’t quite how it happened. Thomas Jefferson agreed to support certain banking legislation proposed by Alexander Hamilton in exchange for his agreement that the capital would be placed **in the south** , after which the site of Washington was chosen. At the time, that location between Maryland and Virginia was most definitely considered to be in the south, not in between the north and the south. > > As an aside, I hope no one minds the reminder that a capit\*\*o[/]l is a building. Not just in the South, but in the middle of uninhabited swampland. Hamilton wished to keep the capitol in its current (more sensible) location in New York City, which was already on its way to becoming the nation’s economic capital. But Jefferson, in his romantic view of a nation of yeoman farmers, educated and tilling the land, without the cityfolk oppressing them, insisted that the seat of power be moved to the middle of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/58 "2004-06-17T18:53:13Z")
It is interesting to note that several important people, including George Washington himself, owned land in or near the site chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Agent\_Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Cooper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/59 "2004-06-17T19:53:54Z")
Slightly off-topic, but I recall reading some years ago that Japan had passed a bill stating the need for a new capitol by a specific date, due to overcrowding in Tokyo. I don’t know if they intended to altogether move it from Tokyo, or somehow operate from two cities. hmm ---
**Author:** ![whistlepig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/73ab20/32.png) [@whistlepig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whistlepig)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477/60 "2004-06-21T14:08:50Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > Then there’s Montana. Bribery, greed, pride, corruption—it’s got it all! > > The first territorial legislature (meeting in a dirt-roofed cabin in Bannack in 1864) made Virginia City the capital. It remained there until statehood in 1889, when it was decided for some reason that a new capital was in order. The selection was one aspect of the famous (in Montana, anyway) [War of the Copper Kings](http://www.missoulian.com/specials/100montanans/list/006.html) between William Clark (Helena) and Marcus Daly (Anaconda). Best guess is that they spent over six million dollars between them, and when the dust settled Helena—originally known as Last Chance Gulch, a name I personaly prefer—won. > > (Clark later bought a US Senate election, but was initially refused his seat by the leadership. He served one term, then was sent packing for good.) And it’s rumored that a stuffed ballot box, which contained enough votes to give the election to Butte, was later found in the house of a dead deputy sheriff in Helena. Whistlepig [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-state-capitals/250477.md?page=4)