# American-style punctuation **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259 "2012-01-12T04:55:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/21 "2012-01-12T20:49:03Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > It’s wrong because TV show titles get italicized, not put in quotes. Individual episode titles go in quotes, though. > > Likewise, book titles are italicized, but short story titles go in quotes. > Titles of long epic poems get italicized, but titles of short poems go in quotes. > Album titles get italicized, but song titles go in quotes. (E.g. the title track of _Let It Be_ is “Let It Be.”) > Opera titles get italicized, but IINM individual aria titles go in quotes. > Titles of plays, movies, and works of art get italicized. Also names of ships and genus and species names get italicized. > (No underlining any of the above! Unless you’re using an old typewriter that can’t do italics.) > Yeah, I do some editing on the side myself. “Wrong” is an inappropriate word to use here, Johanna, and as a linguist and an editor, you, I suspect, are perfectly aware of that. I’m also a professional editor, and not just on the side. These are style issues that depend on the rules set by your publication. It’s perfectly fine to use quotation marks instead of italics for all titles. In fact, for decades the AP style guide used no italics at all. I haven’t seen the current edition, so I don’t know whether it has changed. In fact, my current publication uses italics for all titles of works, and doesn’t make a distinction between album/song or series/episode titles. If you’re in charge of your own style, then it’s up to you to choose whether you want to use quotation marks or italics. None of these systems are “wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/22 "2012-01-12T21:01:39Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Unless (in the “logical” or “British” system) it’s part of the quotation, e.g., > > The letter’s first line was “To whom it may concern:”. > > or > > A URL starts with “http:” to denote that the web browser should interpret it using the Hypertext Transfer Protocol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, unless the colon is part of the material quoted, then it goes outside the quotation marks. ---
**Author:** ![checkedible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@checkedible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/checkedible)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/23 "2012-01-12T21:12:45Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’ve wondered whether the British practice of using single quotes where Americans used double quotes is what makes Brits willing to put period and commas outside the quotes. A period after a single quote isn’t separated quite so much from the word it follows, so it doesn’t look as floaty-out-in-spacey. Really? I’ve always been taught it’s the other way round. That Americans put single quotes where we use double; that’s why we call that " a quotation mark. I have absolutely no recollection of seeing single inverted commas anywhere in a British publication. Full stop. (that’s ‘period’ to you guys I guess. – And demonstrates the only time single inverted commas are used: when it’s an individual word being quoted, and even then it’s not universal. Speech marks are double, always.) If it was ever a rule here, it must be very antiquated. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/24 "2012-01-12T21:38:44Z")
> [@checkedible](#): > > Really? I’ve always been taught it’s the other way round. That Americans put single quotes where we use double; that’s why we call that " a quotation mark. > > I have absolutely no recollection of seeing single inverted commas anywhere in a British publication. Full stop. (that’s ‘period’ to you guys I guess. – And demonstrates the only time single inverted commas are used: when it’s an individual word being quoted, and even then it’s not universal. Speech marks are double, always.) If it was ever a rule here, it must be very antiquated. What? This is completely opposite of my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/25 "2012-01-12T21:55:19Z")
> [@checkedible](#): > > Really? I’ve always been taught it’s the other way round. That Americans put single quotes where we use double; that’s why we call that " a quotation mark. > > I have absolutely no recollection of seeing single inverted commas anywhere in a British publication. Full stop. (that’s ‘period’ to you guys I guess. – And demonstrates the only time single inverted commas are used: when it’s an individual word being quoted, and even then it’s not universal. Speech marks are double, always.) If it was ever a rule here, it must be very antiquated. I could have sworn I’ve seen single quotes used in British publications, but you made me doubt myself. So I went a-googling, and found that it’s not entirely cut-and-dried, but I can find at least some cites that agree with me. Examples of what I found are [here](http://grammartips.homestead.com/quotationmarks.html) > [@](#): > > The American rule is that double quotation marks are the standard form, and single quotation marks (what the British call “inverted commas”) are normally used only to enclose a quotation within a quotation. > > The British usually, _but not always_, reverse this order, using single quotation marks first, and then double quotation marks to enclose quotations within quotations and [here](http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/british-american-english-differences.aspx) > [@](#): > > In America we use double quotation marks to enclose a quotation, and single quotation marks if we need to enclose another quotation inside the first quotation. In British English, it’s the opposite. Single quotation marks are used for everyday purposes such as enclosing a stand-alone quotation (4, 5). > > In 1908, an influential British style guide called _The King’s English_, stated that “The prevailing [method] is to use double marks for most purposes, and single ones for quotations within quotations.” So to spell it out for you, the author, Fowler, was saying that at the time the British did it the same way we do it now in America. But Fowler went on to advocate for single quotations marks, saying it is more logical to use them for regular quotations, and to reserve double quotation marks for quotations within quotations (6). He didn’t explain why he thought it was more logical; he just said it was. Given that the British method now follows Fowler’s stated preference, I presume that Fowler is the reason the British now use single quotation marks where Americans primarily use double quotation marks–that he was influential enough to make that change happen. and [here](http://www.writersblock.ca/tips/monthtip/tipmay96.htm) > [@](#): > > The Americans and the British exhibit distinct styles for using quotation marks. In the American style, double quotation marks enclose quotations, and single quotation marks enclose quotations within quotations. The British practice is to use single quotation marks to enclose quotations, and double quotation marks to enclose a quotation within another quotation. > > In the American style, periods and commas are always placed inside the quotation marks, for typographical reasons. In the British style, periods and commas are placed inside the quotation marks only when they are part of the quoted material, which is the more logical placement. > > The Canadian style for quotation marks usually follows the American style for appearance and placement of periods and commas. Some Canadian publishers, however, use the British style. Others employ a combination of the two styles. and [here](http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuation/node30.html) > [@](#): > > The use of quotation marks, also called inverted commas, is very slightly complicated by the fact that there are two types: single quotes (` ') and double quotes (" "). As a general rule, British usage has in the past usually preferred single quotes for ordinary use, but double quotes are now increasingly common; American usage has always preferred double quotes. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/26 "2012-01-12T22:33:20Z")
Back in the '50s, we were taught to put punctuation inside the quotes, no matter what. Since then, the “common sense” approach has modified this, for the better. But I’ve never seen punctuation outside the quotes, for an actual quotation. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/27 "2012-01-12T23:19:31Z")
I guess I’ll play it by ear. ---
**Author:** ![checkedible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@checkedible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/checkedible)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/28 "2012-01-12T23:25:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I could have sworn I’ve seen single quotes used in British publications, but you made me doubt myself. So I went a-googling, and found that it’s not entirely cut-and-dried. I’d agree that it’s not cut and dried, but I also note that your quotes contradict each other, one says > [@](#): > > “The prevailing [method] is to use double marks for most purposes, and single ones for quotations within quotations.” written in 1908, indicating it was standard. And the latter says > [@](#): > > British usage has in the past usually preferred single quotes for ordinary use, but double quotes are now increasingly common. I also note that most of your sources are American; so I checked the Guardian stylebook, They clearly state quotes should go in quotation marks unless quoted within someone else’s speech. \*\* Lynne Truss’s\*\* _Eats Shoots and Leaves_ says: > [@](#): > > [I was] trained to use double quotation marks for speech, however, with single quotations for quotations-within-quotations. [because]…A sentence that begins with a single quote and contains an apostrophe after three or four words is quite confusing typographically. indicating the practice has been around for at least since she was young. I can only vouch for experience; I have read hundreds of thousands of newspapers, articles, books and leaflets written in the UK in my lifetime and cannot recall a time when inverted commas were used to encompass speech except inside another quotation, or outlining a single word. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/29 "2012-01-12T23:47:14Z")
> [@checkedible](#): > > I can only vouch for experience; I have read hundreds of thousands of newspapers, articles, books and leaflets written in the UK in my lifetime and cannot recall a time when inverted commas were used to encompass speech except inside another quotation, or outlining a single word. Bizarre - that has always been a hallmark of British books in my experience; their use of single quotes. Maybe the style is different in newspapers and magazines, though. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/30 "2012-01-13T00:08:08Z")
> [@checkedible](#): > > Really? I’ve always been taught it’s the other way round. That Americans put single quotes where we use double; that’s why we call that " a quotation mark. Wait, what? I’ve read several British novels with single quote (') marks rather than double. R F Delderfield, Sarah Waters, Herbie Brennan etc. I’ve never seen an American do that, and frankly it irritates the crap out of me when I see it in a British book…but not as much as Frank McCourt not using any punctuation at all around conversation. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/31 "2012-01-13T00:21:31Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Bizarre - that has always been a hallmark of British books in my experience; their use of single quotes. Maybe the style is different in newspapers and magazines, though. Unless the books on my bookshelf are unusual, then this is right - British books nearly always use single quotation marks. I just flicked through a few and the only ones with double quotation marks are The Amber Spyglass and a couple of Janet Evanoviches. However, the few magazines I have around, and the BBC and Independent websites, all use double quotation marks. Odd that there’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/32 "2012-01-13T05:22:04Z")
> [@voguevixen](#): > > Interesting. I put the punctuation inside the quotes when it’s part of the quote itself: (So I told him to “Go to hell.”) But outside when it’s not: (Some street vendor tried to sell me a $20 “Rolex”.) I learned to do it that way when writing computer code. It makes a heck of a lot of difference whether the punctuation is inside or outside the quote marks in code! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/33 "2012-01-13T09:17:01Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Everywhere I can get away with it, I put the period/comma outside. If the person didn’t say a period or comma, then it doesn’t get inside the quotes. That’s my rule. And, in my opinion, people don’t say commas or periods. They are just marks to help clarify text. You can argue that they are pauses, but a pause at the end of a quote is as useful as rests at the end of a piece of music. I also think periods looks silly with blank space in front of them. I use such only when clarity allows no other option. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/34 "2012-01-13T16:39:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, in my opinion, people don’t say commas or periods. Unless you’re Victor Borge, of course. ---
**Author:** ![checkedible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90db22/32.png) [@checkedible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/checkedible)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/35 "2012-01-13T21:11:44Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Unless the books on my bookshelf are unusual, then this is right - British books nearly always use single quotation marks. I just flicked through a few and the only ones with double quotation marks are The Amber Spyglass and a couple of Janet Evanoviches. However, the few magazines I have around, and the BBC and Independent websites, all use double quotation marks. Odd that there’s a difference. I wondered if age has anything to do with it, so I went and checked my bookshelf. All the books matched the newspapers; double quotation marks, not inverted commas, bar two: an Anne McCaffrey and a very early copy of a work by Tolkien. But all the others, including _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_ used double quotes. I can only suppose that it was something that some British publications used, sometime between 1908 and the '70s. But it doesn’t seem to be universal. And I agree, **elfkin477** it’s very irritating. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/36 "2012-01-13T22:26:53Z")
> [@checkedible](#): > > I wondered if age has anything to do with it, so I went and checked my bookshelf. All the books matched the newspapers; double quotation marks, not inverted commas, bar two: an Anne McCaffrey and a very early copy of a work by Tolkien. But all the others, including _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_ used double quotes. I can only suppose that it was something that some British publications used, sometime between 1908 and the '70s. But it doesn’t seem to be universal. And I agree, **elfkin477** it’s very irritating. Nope. Most of the books I’m talking about are from the past five years. Four of them were published last year. It really is very odd… I mean, I’m sure you’re not lying, but British books using single quotation marks is a well-known thing, and not an outdated one either, though I wouldn’t be surprised if recent books were more likely to use double quotation marks. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/37 "2012-01-14T04:37:33Z")
In early 1970 (when I was 10) I read the 1965 authorized Ballantine paperback edition of the _Lord of the Rings_—published in the United States, mind you—and it had main quotes in single quote marks (“inverted commas” as they call them in the UK) and double quote marks for embedded quotes. So from a young age I got used to seeing quotes done either way. Incidentally, I loved the smell of the paper Ballantine used for those three books, and would put the opened book up to my nose and inhale deeply. If I were to smell that paper again, it would instantly take me back 42 years… Trivia note: For X-treme embedded quotes (alternating single and double in an extended series of nesting levels), try John Barth’s “Menelaiad” in _Lost in the Funhouse_. It’s of interest just to see how Barth sets up that highly contrived quote just for the sheer typographical joy of it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/38 "2012-01-14T08:15:32Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > This colleague claims that way back when she was in school, she was taught to place punctuation marks outside of quotes, which according to her used to be American-style punctuation. My GF and I are convinced there was no such thing, because Americans have always put punctuation inside the quote marks. Is your colleague an idiot? Sorry, but I had to unload. Working my way slowly through [Eats, Shoots and Leaves](http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592400876) because nobody could be that stupid about the Oxford Comma. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/39 "2012-01-14T16:43:44Z")
> [@voguevixen](#): > > Interesting. I put the punctuation inside the quotes when it’s part of the quote itself: (So I told him to “Go to hell.”) But outside when it’s not: (Some street vendor tried to sell me a $20 “Rolex”.) American here, and this is the way that I’ve always done it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259/40 "2012-01-14T17:11:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > American here, and this is the way that I’ve always done it. American style would have the period inside in both cases. However, with a question mark it delends on whether it belongs to the quote or the sentence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-style-punctuation/609259.md?page=3)