# "American" Sushi in Japan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 22, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552 "2010-07-22T02:42:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/1 "2010-07-22T02:42:11Z")
I’ve never been to Japan, but I’ve eaten a lot of sushi here in the U.S., and I often wonder how close it is to “the real thing.” Especially in the case of the odd stuff like Philadelphia Rolls, California Rolls, etc. Are these things back-imported to Japan? Would the Japanese be appalled by cream cheese in a Maki roll? I can’t imagine that that’s an authentic recipe re-branded with an American name. What about those “super-dragon/pheonix rolls” or whatever that combine 5 or 6 types of fish with a giant tempura battered prawn sticking out? I had a Donkey Kong roll once: tempura battered banana on top of a salmon/avocado roll, with wasabi mayo. It was good, but odd. Would that be seen as sacrilege in Japan? Others that I’ve wondered about: tempura sweet potato roll, teriyaki chicken roll… ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/2 "2010-07-22T04:08:11Z")
I have written quite a bit about that form of sushi – and I live in Japantown in San Francisco. Very generally speaking, those Americanized rolls like Philadelphia rolls are more available here in California at restaurants that are owned and operated by Koreans. In fact, the best offerings are well known to be Korean-owned! There are a handful of sushi restaurants here in San Francisco which now incorporate that style of roll because they are so popular and I have spoken with Japanese chefs who prefer to NOT create them, but they do to increase their bottom line. I can’t comment on how or if they exist in Japan proper. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/3 "2010-07-22T08:01:47Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I’ve never been to Japan, but I’ve eaten a lot of sushi here in the U.S., and I often wonder how close it is to “the real thing.” Especially in the case of the odd stuff like Philadelphia Rolls, California Rolls, etc. Pretty close, though I’ve only occasionally seen a California roll and never a Philadelphia roll. In fact, quite a bit of sushi in Japan isn’t in roll form at all. Depending on where you go (and in particular, the 100 yen sushi places where it comes around on a mini-conveyor belt), sushi is nothing more than a piece of fish/eel/octopus/squid/etc. on top of a clump of rice, like [this](http://www.flickr.com/photos/roboppy/4602870535/). [Here](http://www.sushi.gonpachi.jp/en/casual/home/index) is the website for Gonpachi, a sushi place in the Shibuya area of Tokyo that has a menu in both Japanese and English. It’s a little more new wave than in many sushi restaurants, but not terribly so. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/4 "2010-07-22T10:40:56Z")
That’s what I always thought sushi was, Camus. I didn’t learn about the rolls until much later. Then again, the only sushi I like is made with cooked fish. (And yes, it’s still a type of sushi.) ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/5 "2010-07-22T12:44:12Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > Pretty close, though I’ve only occasionally seen a California roll and never a Philadelphia roll. In fact, quite a bit of sushi in Japan isn’t in roll form at all. Depending on where you go (and in particular, the 100 yen sushi places where it comes around on a mini-conveyor belt), sushi is nothing more than a piece of fish/eel/octopus/squid/etc. on top of a clump of rice, like [this](http://www.flickr.com/photos/roboppy/4602870535/). That’s only one type of sushi, though. Perhaps \*nigiri \*be more prevalent because it’s quick to make and relatively simple. > [@](#): > > [Here](http://www.sushi.gonpachi.jp/en/casual/home/index) is the website for Gonpachi, a sushi place in the Shibuya area of Tokyo that has a menu in both Japanese and English. It’s a little more new wave than in many sushi restaurants, but not terribly so. Looks to me like there’s a fair number of \*maki \*available. They’ve even incorporated the California roll and dragon roll. I’ve never been to Japan, but in the sushi places I’ve been to in the U.S., there’s a huge nigiri selection along with a wider variety of maki. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/6 "2010-07-22T13:32:23Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I often wonder how close it is to “the real thing.”　Especially in the case of the odd stuff like Philadelphia Rolls, California Rolls, etc. As soon as you start straying from the basics… not at all. > [@](#): > > Are these things back-imported to Japan? Outside of a few places trying to appeal to the trendy, no. > [@](#): > > Would the Japanese be appalled by cream cheese in a Maki roll? Yes. > [@](#): > > What about those “super-dragon/pheonix rolls” or whatever that combine 5 or 6 types of fish with a giant tempura battered prawn sticking out? They don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/7 "2010-07-22T13:49:57Z")
They don’t have elaborate rolls over there such as Dave’s Super Crunch Roll or Funky Lobster, I don’t even remember seeing a Philadelphia roll. The only one I’ve seen over there is the California roll which is pretty basic and all of the ingredients can be found in Japan already. Other than that, sushi and rolls are still very simple and basic, people take pride on the balance and harmony created from just a couple of ingredients as opposed to in America where complicated rolls are crammed with as many complimenting flavors as seemingly possible. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/8 "2010-07-22T13:55:49Z")
I don’t know about Japan, but here in L.A. all the “serious” sushi places I know (run by Japanese, catering to a Japanese clientele, proud of the quality of their food) wouldn’t be caught dead serving stuff like that. About as far as they’ll go is California rolls and spicy tuna rolls, and some places won’t even do that. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/9 "2010-07-22T14:14:15Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > I have written quite a bit about that form of sushi – and I live in Japantown in San Francisco. > > Very generally speaking, those Americanized rolls like Philadelphia rolls are more available here in California at restaurants that are owned and operated by Koreans. In fact, the best offerings are well known to be Korean-owned! The California roll was (allegedly) invented at Yusan, in El Cerrito, CA. The sushi chef uses real crab and it’s delicious. He is definitely Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/10 "2010-07-22T14:16:27Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > In fact, quite a bit of sushi in Japan isn’t in roll form at all. Depending on where you go (and in particular, the 100 yen sushi places where it comes around on a mini-conveyor belt), sushi is nothing more than a piece of fish/eel/octopus/squid/etc. on top of a clump of rice, like [this](http://www.flickr.com/photos/roboppy/4602870535/). Yeah, we have nigiri in the U.S. as well, but that doesn’t seem to get as … “embelished?” as the maki. Thanks for the info everyone… Pretty much as I’d expected. But I’m still going to enjoy my Philly rolls, authentic or not. They are as yummy as they are bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/11 "2010-07-22T14:21:58Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > They’ve even incorporated the California roll and dragon roll. I’ve never been to Japan, but in the sushi places I’ve been to in the U.S., there’s a huge nigiri selection along with a wider variety of maki. Though interesting to note that they are under the heading of “international rolls” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/12 "2010-07-22T14:53:34Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Though interesting to note that they are under the heading of “international rolls” 🙂 Well, sure. Just because it’s been embellished for taste profiles and common ingredients of other countries, doesn’t mean it’s not authentic. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/13 "2010-07-22T18:07:13Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > The California roll was (allegedly) invented at Yusan, in El Cerrito, CA. The sushi chef uses real crab and it’s delicious. He is definitely Japanese. Eh? I’ve been there, is that what he claims? ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/14 "2010-07-23T03:25:56Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Just because it’s been embellished for taste profiles and common ingredients of other countries, doesn’t mean it’s not authentic. Well… I wouldn’t disagree that it’s authentic Westernized sushi, I guess… Authentic isn’t a value statement. I like Americanized Chinese food as much or more than the stuff I’ve eaten in China. But I wouldn’t claim that it’s authentic. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/15 "2010-07-25T03:38:12Z")
I recently talked to a Japanese gentleman about this very subject. What he said was that in most cases, what is put on top or inside the sushi is identical no matter where you get it (and in some cases, higher quality than what you could get in Japan.) However, the difference is that in Japan they use a special rice only for sushi. The rice, not the trappings, is what makes Japanese sushi better than other places. But then again, it could also just be ethnic arrogance. All Japanese I have met have said Japanese sushi “tastes better” (except for this one person, no one could articulate why) but no non-Japanese I have ever met could taste the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/16 "2010-07-25T03:55:33Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > The rice, not the trappings, is what makes Japanese sushi better than other places. Well, I would say it is the preparation of the rice is what makes it better. Many claim pizza from Boston or New York tastes better because of the water, I would argue that Japanese rice would taste different as well, quite simply because of the variable of water. (I knew a pizza company in California that shipped WATER from Boston for the making of their dough!) From [Sushi FAQ:](http://www.sushifaq.com/homesushi/howtomakesushiathomesushirice.htm) > [@](#): > > Firstly, the term sushi rice is a misnomer as technically, the word sushi refers to the rice, not the final product. But for arguments sake we’re going to ignore that little tidbit. Sushi would not be sushi without great rice. Anyone can boil rice, but to make really good sushi you will need the right kind of rice, cooked the right way, and properly seasoned. The first thing you need to know is the right kind of rice to use for sushi. The short-grain rice reserved for the task is often called sushi rice, and is available now in many markets, not just Japanese markets. Only this kind of rice has the right balance of starches (amylose and amylopectin) to allow the rice to stick together and keep the final product intact from plate to mouth. Try to eat medium or long-grain rice with chopsticks and you will understand what I mean. > > It is best to use the instructions on the package of rice when cooking it, but a general suggestion is to use equal parts rice and water. Prior to cooking, the rice should be rinsed in cold water until the water runs clear, a step now becoming less necessary as talc (used to prevent the rice from absorbing water and sticking together during storage) is slowly being replaced with another type of starch, which is fine to cook with. But you never know and the package won’t tell you what the company used as a coating. A rice cooker will do a fine job, however if you do not have one you can use our fail safe pot rice recipe which has served many well in the past. > > You should have the seasoning for the rice prepared ahead of time. When the rice is cooked but still hot, place it in a large stainless steel bowl (which is best, but you can certainly use any non-reactive bowl at your disposal). To prepare the seasoning mix 5 tablespoons of rice wine vinegar (it must be rice wine vinegar), 2 teaspoons of sugar, and 1/2 teaspoon of salt together and stir until the sugar dissolves. Heating the vinegar will make the sugar dissolve faster, however the seasoning should not be used until it has cooled to a comfortable temperature (room temperature is best). This will season approximately four cups of cooked rice and can be extrapolated to make more depending on how much rice you are preparing. Remember that one cup of uncooked rice will yield approximately two cups of cooked rice. > > Mix this seasoning sparingly into the rice using a cutting and folding motion as to avoid crushing the rice and making a paste. You want to keep the grains as intact as possible. You may not want to use all the seasoning you have prepared, so it is best to taste along the way until the rice reaches your desired seasoning level. You will realize what that level is the more you make sushi at home and season your own rice. The rice should be alternately folded and fanned to cool it to room temperature. Warm rice does not good sushi make… Some people spread the cooked rice out on a cookie sheet or aluminum foil to cool, but if you do this be careful as aluminum and vinegar do not mix well a this is a very reactive metal and does not like acidic foods. I would suggest a baking pan or cookie sheet if you wish to hasten the cooling process in this manner. When the rice has cooled it is best to take a moist paper towel or hand towel and drape it over the rice when you are not using it to prevent the top layer from drying out and getting hard. You now have your seasoned sushi rice ready! You can make this hours before you start making sushi at home, as long as you keep the damp towel over the top of the rice to maintain it’s moisture level. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/17 "2010-07-25T04:29:20Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > They don’t have them. isn’t that futomaki, maybe an extreme version? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/18 "2010-07-25T04:54:27Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > (I knew a pizza company in California that shipped WATER from Boston for the making of their dough!) Mori Sushi on Pico in L.A. grows their own rice. Personally, I think that’s a little obsessive, but they’re very serious about their sushi … . ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/19 "2010-07-25T05:58:39Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > I recently talked to a Japanese gentleman about this very subject. What he said was that in most cases, what is put on top or inside the sushi is identical no matter where you get it (and in some cases, higher quality than what you could get in Japan.) However, the difference is that in Japan they use a special rice only for sushi. The rice, not the trappings, is what makes Japanese sushi better than other places. As far as I know, there is no special rice for sushi. The rice used for sushi is the same kind used by most Japanese families for their everyday meals. Maybe he meant that Japanese rice is different from “American” rice (whatever he thinks that is)? But Japanese rice is also produced in the US, and widely available in Asian markets in the US. Not just any short-grain rice, but specific Japanese varieties such as [Koshihikari](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koshihikari), Akitakomachi, etc. I’m Japanese, and personally I can’t tell the difference between these and the same varieties produced in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552/20 "2010-07-26T15:16:57Z")
The difference to me, is that sushi is an art in Japan. It takes years of apprenticeship before you would open a restaurant of your own. The type of rice, the quality of Mirin, the way the rice is prepared, how the rice is made into balls, the way the fish is cut, and a bunch of other factors make it special. Think of it like barbecue. Anyone can throw some ribs on a grill and smother it with sauce, but real (what ever that means) barbecue takes a lot of care and skill. It’s disheartening to talk with someone who says they really like sushi and then find out that all they like are rolls that they smother in soy sauce and wasabi. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-sushi-in-japan/547552.md?page=2)