# American terrorist caught in Germany **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 15, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714 "2003-01-15T10:47:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/1 "2003-01-15T10:47:15Z")
There was a thread about this some months ago but I just cannot find it. An American woman and her Turkish fiance were arrested in Germany when they were suspected of plotting to blow up an American base. Some voices here called for the immediate and worst punishment. Well, as often happens in witch hunts, it now seems the evidence is less than solid and this couple may just be your garden variety leftist pot smokers who were accused by a coworker who disliked them and who has a history of lying. The couple are still in jail after several months waiting trial. > [@](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/14/army.base.plot.case/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/14/army.base.plot.case/index.html) > > An American woman and her fiance arrested this past September on suspicion of plotting to blow up a U.S. Army base in Germany are still being held in prison, largely on the word of a witness discredited by others who knew her. > > the witness, herself a young American woman, told authorities the two were making explosives in their suburban apartment and planning an attack on the military base > > At the time of the police raid of the couple’s apartment, German officials announced that five pipe bombs, and hundred of kilos of chemicals to make explosives had been found. German officials also said they had found a poster of Osama bin Laden hanging on the wall. They claimed to have averted a major terrorist attack. > > But police documents obtained by CNN, detailing the search, show no pipe bombs were found. And a forensic analysis of chemicals found in the apartment carried out by the German prosecution and seen by CNN states that construction of a bomb would not have been possible without additional chemicals and materials not found in the apartment. The worst danger to our freedom is not terrorism but mass hysteria. I just wanted to follow up on that thread which I could not find ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/2 "2003-01-15T10:56:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > This couple may just be your garden variety leftist pot smokers Goddamn tree hugging hippy crap! Burn 'em! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/3 "2003-01-15T11:17:13Z")
Yeah, but weren’t they arrested by, and face charges in Germany? I agree that mass-hysteria is a bad thing, but this looks like Germany being hysterical. Or are you just talking about those here who called for their heads? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/4 "2003-01-15T11:24:20Z")
A police officer was stabbed to death and several others injured in Manchester last night in follow-up raids on terrorist suspects following the discovery of ricin in London the other week. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/5 "2003-01-15T11:27:04Z")
God-damned [hysteric](http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1076520,00.html) Brits! ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/6 "2003-01-15T11:36:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Yeah, but weren’t they arrested by, and face charges in Germany? I agree that mass-hysteria is a bad thing, but this looks like Germany being hysterical. > > Or are you just talking about those here who called for their heads? \*\* I am not sure what you are asking. Yes, it happened in Germany. So? My point is that mass hysteria leading to expeditive arrests and punishments are not the way to go. Anywhere. And those who defend those practices _anywhere_ are making a big mistake. The stories of people whose lives were wrongly destroyed by overzealous governments will come out later and we shall be ashamed to have done such things just like we now recognize that interning the Japanese during WWII was a bad thing. It is in times like this when it is most essential to preserve the rule of law and individual rights to due process. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/7 "2003-01-15T11:43:40Z")
Crusoe, Brutus, how does the stabbing of a cop in the UK have any relevance to the OP? Maybe I’m missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/8 "2003-01-15T11:45:41Z")
**Brutus** - was that sarcasm? (honestly; I wasn’t sure) Traces of ricin have already been found in London; the Manchester raid was following up on additional suspects who were not arrested in London. I’m usually the first to complain about press hysteria, but this one is a little more grounded than most stories. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/9 "2003-01-15T11:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\* The stories of people whose lives were wrongly destroyed by overzealous governments will come out later and we shall be ashamed to have done such things just like we now recognize that interning the Japanese during WWII was a bad thing. It is in times like this when it is most essential to preserve the rule of law and individual rights to due process. \*\* Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/10 "2003-01-15T11:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*Crusoe, Brutus, how does the stabbing of a cop in the UK have any relevance to the OP? Maybe I’m missing something? \*\* Terrorism is alive and well; Calling for measures, even strong ones, against it don’t really qualify as ‘hysteria’. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/11 "2003-01-15T11:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crusoe \* > \*\ ***Brutus** - was that sarcasm? (honestly; I wasn’t sure) > > Traces of ricin have already been found in London; the Manchester raid was following up on additional suspects who were not arrested in London. I’m usually the first to complain about press hysteria, but this one is a little more grounded than most stories. \*\* Sure was! ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/12 "2003-01-15T12:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Terrorism is alive and well; Calling for measures, even strong ones, against it don’t really qualify as ‘hysteria’. \*\* I still don’t get it. It seems, in Germany, two people who may be innocent have been falsely accused and spent time in jail. Are you telling me this is OK because a cop was killed in the UK? I’m afraid I don’t follow you. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/13 "2003-01-15T12:11:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*I still don’t get it. It seems, in Germany, two people who may be innocent have been falsely accused and spent time in jail. Are you telling me this is OK because a cop was killed in the UK? I’m afraid I don’t follow you. \*\* Don’t be so fucking obstinate. You are whining about ‘witch hunts’ and hysteria; Obviously, there are terrorists in Western nations, getting ready to do God know what. Your shaky story shows nothing; The Britian arrest story shows that the danger is real, and is not some abstract political construct. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/14 "2003-01-15T12:23:22Z")
Brutus, there’s a bit of a difference between the two cases wouldnt you agree? In fact I cant actually see any parrallels at all. Help me out here. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/15 "2003-01-15T12:24:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Your shaky story shows nothing; Except that two people are in prison based on discredited eyewitness reports lies in a police statement. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/16 "2003-01-15T12:24:56Z")
How exactly does jailing innocent people in one country prevent a cop being killed in another country? I don’t get it. Your position seems to fit into the “mass hysteria” definition pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/17 "2003-01-15T12:25:28Z")
My apologies all. I read too much into **sailor** ’s thread title and didn’t spend enough time actually understanding the gist of the OP. My “UK arrest” post was not entirely relevant to this specific thread - sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/18 "2003-01-15T12:28:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Except that two people are in prison based on discredited eyewitness reports lies in a police statement. \*\* From the story in the OP: > [@](#): > > A spokesperson for the German prosecution acknowledged to CNN that the witness is not reliable, but added, because of the materials found in the apartment, especially the “black powder,” they believe that in this instance, the witness was being truthful. The jerry cops don’t seem to have a problem keeping them in the can. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/19 "2003-01-15T12:35:28Z")
> [@](#): > > A spokesperson for the German prosecution acknowledged to CNN that the witness is not reliable, but added, because of the materials found in the apartment, especially the “black powder,” they believe that in this instance, the witness was being truthful. I am not going to prejudge the outcome of the trial but the case now seems to me more based on the police trying not to have to admit they made a mistake in the first place. Note that they have admitted 1- a bomb could not be made using what they found in the partment 2- that possessing black powder is not illegal 3- the guy has a history since he was a kid of making his own fireworks (with black powder) ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714/20 "2003-01-15T12:40:37Z")
Then why havent they been charged Brutus? They can hold them for 6 months and time is running out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-terrorist-caught-in-germany/148714.md?page=2)