# Americans Abroad paying US Income Tax: Since when? How are they monitored? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 21, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228 "2014-03-21T13:55:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/61 "2014-07-16T11:23:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So are you guys arguing that many means a lot and a few means more than one? If so, I’m not disagreeing. No, they are correcting your false implication that besides the USA, there are even a few countries that practice this taxation methodology. It is the USA and the Eritrea. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/62 "2014-07-16T11:28:34Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > No, they are correcting your false implication that besides the USA, there are even a few countries that practice this taxation methodology. It is the USA and the Eritrea. Mentioning the names of those two countries, and only those two countries, in a single sentence means I have switched dimensions. Thank you for locating me. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/63 "2014-07-16T11:55:01Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’d wager the overwhelming majority of persons who happen to have American citizenship but live and work out of country do not need to pay American taxes at all. On income, yes. But Americans living outside the US have to pay US tax on interest, rental income (even if the property is outside the USA) and all other non-earned (wage) income such as capital gains when selling a home or other asset. ---
**Author:** ![beakernz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@beakernz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakernz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/64 "2014-07-17T02:41:14Z")
As an expat (15yrs now) you do not want to be a US citizen overseas. All the hassles have now intensified to the point you have two choices: 1) move back to the USA 2) give up your citizenship. 7 million expats and we’re all assumed to be tax evading traitors. It’s not worth it. After coming to terms with what it would take me to attempt compliance, and realizing I was never going back anyway I have ditched my US citizenship. Do I owe taxes? Am I evading taxes? No. A record 4,000+ others have ditched the US this quarter as well and 2015 could see record numbers of renunciations (I estimate 50,000 or more ditching), FATCA and other citizen based taxation is making life hell for 7 million expats, all in order to catch a few tax evaders. The irony? Those big tax evaders will simply work around the system anyway. Not to mention FFIs ditching US citizens and businesses now because they can’t be bothered dealing with FATCA. I could go on… ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/65 "2014-07-17T15:40:09Z")
> [@beakernz](#): > > As an expat (15yrs now) you do not want to be a US citizen overseas. All the hassles have now intensified to the point you have two choices: 1) move back to the USA 2) give up your citizenship. No offense, but I think that is over-the-top bullshit. I’ve been an expat much longer than you, I do want to still live abroad, and I have no desire to give up my American citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/66 "2014-07-18T06:48:12Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > No offense, but I think that is over-the-top bullshit. I’ve been an expat much longer than you, I do want to still live abroad, and I have no desire to give up my American citizenship. 14 years overseas and I find it no hassle at all. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/67 "2014-07-18T07:30:24Z")
If you’re living abroad and can claim another citizenship through a spouse or something do so, stop using your US passport. TA DA! Why bother to spend $400 USD to renounce USA citizenship? Unless you’ve had contact with the USA embassy for all they know you’re dead, they don’t keep track of people who have left the USA. The only way I can see people being nervous is if they want to return to the USA. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/68 "2014-07-18T07:55:17Z")
I’ve lived abroad for well over 40 years. Retired now with a foreign pension. Actually it was this year that I found out about tax requirements and bank accounts. I’m a bit off the grid. I filed my first U.S. tax return since, well, maybe 1965… Now that I’m “registered” I am awaiting the inevitable letter from the U.S. government demanding something… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/69 "2014-07-18T13:10:32Z")
> [@grude](#): > > If you’re living abroad and can claim another citizenship through a spouse or something do so, stop using your US passport. TA DA! > > Why bother to spend $400 USD to renounce USA citizenship? Unless you’ve had contact with the USA embassy for all they know you’re dead, they don’t keep track of people who have left the USA. > > The only way I can see people being nervous is if they want to return to the USA. It’s not the embassy; they’re here to represent US economic interests, ex-pat citizens only secondarily. It’s the IRS who keeps track. And I prefer not to be a scofflaw if I can help it! I don’t plan to return, but with aging parents in the US, I need to keep things in order in case I need to visit. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/70 "2014-07-18T13:41:33Z")
> [@grude](#): > > If you’re living abroad and can claim another citizenship through a spouse or something do so, stop using your US passport. TA DA! > > Why bother to spend $400 USD to renounce USA citizenship? Unless you’ve had contact with the USA embassy for all they know you’re dead, they don’t keep track of people who have left the USA. > > The only way I can see people being nervous is if they want to return to the USA. It’s not that simple. In Canada at least the local banks were bullied into handing over financial information on known and suspected American citizens to the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/71 "2014-07-18T14:21:29Z")
> [@grude](#): > > If you’re living abroad and can claim another citizenship through a spouse or something do so, stop using your US passport. TA DA! > > Why bother to spend $400 USD to renounce USA citizenship? Unless you’ve had contact with the USA embassy for all they know you’re dead, they don’t keep track of people who have left the USA. > > The only way I can see people being nervous is if they want to return to the USA. The problem isn’t “now”. The problem is your whole life. When you opened your bank account when you first moved to Whereverstan, did you indicate in any way a connection to the USA? (Birthplace, previous address, other citizenship?) Does the bank see from your name and accent you are likely American? Did you chit-chat with the tellers over time and happen to mention being American, or sound like you spent a lot of time in America? Then, the bank knows you are American. They have the choice of (a) filing reams of paperwork which may violate local privacy laws, and if they do it wrong or miss your status, they get hit with US penalties and cannot do any business with any bank that does business with America, or (b) dropping you as a customer. Many foreign banks, oddly, opt for (b). If you transfer to a new bank, they are now wary of strange American looking and American-sounding customers looking to open accounts, and will probably demand some proof like non-American birth certificate. (i.e., from Kenya?) ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228/72 "2014-07-18T15:00:41Z")
I tried to open a deposit account in a French bank. I am a Spanish resident. Nationality please? USA. Sorry, not allowed for Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-abroad-paying-us-income-tax-since-when-how-are-they-monitored/684228.md?page=3)