# Americans and their guns. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354 "2008-11-12T15:34:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/21 "2008-11-12T19:17:38Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I think Wisconsin hunters could hold back the Canadian military all by themselves, of course the Canadian military is about as scary as Bob Hope. A friend of mine lost both his legs in Afghanistan fighting on your behalf people who have done us no harm. I’m all for the Canadian military getting out of Afghanistan too. It disgusts me that we fight on behalf of a country that has no problem kidnaping and torturing Canadian citizens. Anyway, carry on talking about your guns. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/22 "2008-11-12T19:21:06Z")
The first amendment says: _Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances._ It would be very difficult to completely enforce these, particularly assembly and redress, if the only thing the Government had to worry about was irritated lawyers…the first thing they’d do is eliminate the redress clause, and at that point, lawyers have no teeth… ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/23 "2008-11-12T19:21:13Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Honestly I don’t think private gun owners would stand a chance against the Armed Forces in full on battle. Unless its the mormons in Utah or the LA riots, I can’t imagine anyone taking on the armed forces in an organized way that would lead to open conflict. If it didn’t happen during desegragation and the civil rights movement, then iits hard to think what would cause it. Its starting to look like the second amendment was put in as a tripwire. declan ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/24 "2008-11-12T19:26:31Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Fix my ignorance, because I can’t find it. Is there not a constitutional protection against the standing army firing on U.S. citizens? Not really or the Union army would have been screwed during the civil war. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/25 "2008-11-12T19:27:48Z")
> [@vison](#): > > That is an excellent reason. It makes more sense than any other I’ve ever heard for supporting the 2nd amendment. > > Thanks. Thanks to you too.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/26 "2008-11-12T19:29:34Z")
I personally don’t like guns but I am a 100% supporter of the 2nd amendment. Why is it so hard for people to support issues they personally don’t care for? Believe in the constitution, it has served us well. Yeah, it’d be great if there never were guns, and if they were invented yesterday I would probably join the fight to stop their spread, but that’s not the reality of the situation. The reality is that we have an armed, law-abiding populace, and trying to disrupt that would be big trouble. Plus, has anyone ever thought about how incredibly difficult it would be for a foreign country to invade the US on land? Multiply ::knock knock knock:: POW! by about 50 million. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/27 "2008-11-12T19:38:33Z")
More like 150 million there, Cisco… ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/28 "2008-11-12T19:39:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Plus, has anyone ever thought about how incredibly difficult it would be for a foreign country to invade the US on land? Multiply ::knock knock knock:: POW! by about 50 million. Are you suggesting that an invading foreign power that has already defeated and neutralized the entire American military machine, including its nuclear arsenal, is going to be stopped by your little band of Wolverines? > [@](#): > > I’m all for the Canadian military getting out of Afghanistan too. It disgusts me that we fight on behalf of a country that has no problem kidnaping and torturing Canadian citizens. FYI, this country you speak of is the democratically elected government of Afghanistan. But I’m sure your friend has already clarified that for you. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/29 "2008-11-12T19:42:12Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > FYI, this country you speak of is the democratically elected government of Afghanistan. But I’m sure your friend has already clarified that for you. The one kidnapping Canadian citizens would be the U.S. I suppose you can quibble about who the Canadians are fighting on behalf of, but I’m pretty sure we asked for their help. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/30 "2008-11-12T19:50:44Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The one kidnapping Canadian citizens would be the U.S. [Link. Maher Arar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/31 "2008-11-12T19:57:07Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > FYI, this country you speak of is the democratically elected government of Afghanistan. But I’m sure your friend has already clarified that for you. I’m aware of the formalities as well as the politics, yes. In the end, the Canadian military is there because the Taliban attacked the US, whose gratitude I find wanting. Anyway: guns? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/32 "2008-11-12T20:04:37Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Are you suggesting that an invading foreign power that has already defeated and neutralized the entire American military machine, including its nuclear arsenal, is going to be stopped by your little band of Wolverines? First of all, back off with the insults. I already said I don’t like guns (that I don’t own one follows logically), and I’m not a member of any “little band of wolverines.” Secondly, yes, I can imagine scenarios in which an armed populace would be a wonderful last line of defense. You’re assuming the US will maintain our current economic and military dominance forever. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/33 "2008-11-12T20:15:06Z")
Canada is a member of NATO and is obligated to be in Afghanistan regardless of how they or anyone else feels about the sistuation. Benjamin Franklin I believe said People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of the people. Didn’t Hitler get rid of all personal firearms when he came into power? Not every German liked what he was doing and I am sure a lot of them would have taken shots against their own military. I am real glad people in France had personal weapons. The French resistance was very decently armed and did a lot of damage. What if the electoral college decided they wanted McCain as the president? They could in theory if they wanted to. But they don’t Why? Because it would start riots, lots of people with guns. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/34 "2008-11-12T20:37:35Z")
Quoth **vision** : > [@](#): > > Canadians are fighting and dying in Afghanistan, silly buggers. Now the big, strapping US military is going to be arriving there in greater numbers. They’ve won the war in Iraq and have time now to show those Taliban guys a thing or two. While there are those who disagree with me, I think it’s time the Canucks came home. They won’t be needed now, obviously. It is possible to maintain that the Canadian military is being used more valiantly and wisely than the American military, while simultaneously recognizing that the American military is an order of magnitude more powerful. As to this business of the Second Amendment protecting the rest of the Constitution, there are countries in the world where private gun ownership is widespread but where there is no freedom of speech, and there are also countries which have freedom of speech but which do not have widespread private gun ownership. Which are more free? It’s the first ammendment which protects all the others, not the second. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/35 "2008-11-12T21:06:21Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > Didn’t Hitler get rid of all personal firearms when he came into power? [No](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1791/did-hitler-ban-gun-ownership). ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/36 "2008-11-12T21:16:57Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Not really or the Union army would have been screwed during the civil war. Were the Confederates American citizens at that point? The Confederates didn’t think so anyway. I think the 2nd ammendment also gives Americans the important right to general self-defense. When it’s 3:00 AM and some crazy guy is breaking your window, the cops are 20 or 30 minutes away in many cases. In reality police often just make reports afterwards rather than stop actual in-progress crimes. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/37 "2008-11-12T21:18:11Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Do you honestly think that if it came to armed conflict, every enlistee, veteran, Reservist, and National Guardsman would all side with the ‘government’? And do you honestly think that if it came to armed conflict every private citizen would side against the government? Because I find it much more likely that the gun people would side with the government to save the country from the gays, the godless and other anti-american undesirables. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/38 "2008-11-12T21:20:54Z")
> [@vison](#): > > Yeah, I get a bit fed up with the big US dumping heaps of scorn on the Canadian military. . I am not aware that Americans have ever made a habit of dumping on the Canadian armed forces, with perhaps the exception of an occasional jerk. France, yes, and it’s gotten really tiresome. But not Canada. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/39 "2008-11-12T21:27:41Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > If it didn’t happen during desegragation and the civil rights movement, then iits hard to think what would cause it. Well, a few years later the Black Panthers, the Black Liberation Army, the Symbionese Liberation Army and the Weather Underground certainly thought armed insurrection was a real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354/40 "2008-11-12T21:31:31Z")
> [@Punintentional](#): > > Do any of you that think you’re protecting the constitution honestly think that you want your guns in order to fight off the government in case they try to do things to you that you dont want them to? Yes. > [@](#): > > You’re in a real malitia? No, I’m not. I don’t think there really are any serious militias in the country. > [@](#): > > You think you have a chance? A chance? Did the Iraqis or the Taliban have a chance? They’ve been kicking our asses pretty hard. It’s because they have a simple goal: hurt the occupiers until the occupiers decide it’s not worth it to stay. Our goal is a lot more complicated: Keep beating down all armed resistance until everyone agrees to stop killing each other and accept the elected government. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-and-their-guns/472354.md?page=3)