# American's are too dumb for an Obama presidency. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295 "2008-12-08T20:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/81 "2008-12-09T18:17:05Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase “the best and the brightest” refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Johnson retained the majority of Kennedy’s staff in the early days of his presidency–corresponding to the time when the war was ramped up and the policies of the next seven years established. None of which negates the pertinency of my point. My comment was made in direct rebuttal to a claim by another poster that her citation indicated the Kennedy administration was populated by academic elites and was a thing to be admired. The article linked clearly stated no such thing; it’s evaluation of the Kennedy administration can only be interpreted as equivocal - at best. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/82 "2008-12-09T18:28:38Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > None of which negates the pertinency of my point. My comment was made in direct rebuttal to a claim by another poster that her citation indicated the Kennedy administration was populated by academic elites and was a thing to be admired. The article linked clearly stated no such thing; it’s evaluation of the Kennedy administration can only be interpreted as equivocal - at best. No, I was not saying Kennedy’s choices were ‘a thing to be admired’. I was answering your point about the ‘norm’ being the last 8 years. I was pointing out that the writer says the Obama picks are not the norm for the government and then goes on to state that Clinton and Kennedy’s pick were supposedly Ivy elite. So the article implies that dumb fucks are “the norm” when really it’s just been the last eight years. And the last eight years have been anything but normal. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/83 "2008-12-09T18:39:51Z")
Gotcha. I misunderstood. However, I think you’re missing a few years in your evaluation. We’ve had considerably more than 4 administrations since the days of FDR. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/84 "2008-12-09T20:51:37Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Seriously. Where in the hell did that apostrophe come from? What the hell is wrong with the OP? What was she thinking? Is our children learning? It’s the Lynne Truss memorial apostrophe. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/85 "2008-12-09T21:13:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase “the best and the brightest” refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Johnson retained the majority of Kennedy’s staff in the early days of his presidency–corresponding to the time when the war was ramped up and the policies of the next seven years established. True, but we aren’t sure whether JFK would have escalated the war or quit. LBJ was a consummate politician - much better at that than JFK, but did he feel intellectually equal to JFK’s cabinet? (Which did a damn good job during the Cuban Missile crisis, by the way.) Obama clearly is comfortable with a cabinet containing a lot of smart people with a lot of strong opinions. In my experience - in tech - really smart managers are happy to hire people smarter than they are, while not so smart managers feel diminished by this, and tend to attract not so good people. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/86 "2008-12-09T21:18:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I guess I’ll try to be more **Shodanesque** then: > > “So you’re saying that Bush’s transition team was unable to appoint capable people to cabinet in December of 2000 because someone was going to remove the “W” keys from the whitehouse keyboards at some later date?” To be fair they were considering bringing in George Will, but somehow could only manage George ill. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/87 "2008-12-09T22:00:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Your timing is off there little buddy. Obama has not yet gotten into the White House. So? > [@](#): > > As for your “trashing the whitehouse” meme: > The cites I can find all list $13,000 - $14,000 as the total cost of getting the White House into shape for Bush II. This includes replacing keyboards (the infamous “W Key” episode), and routine cleaning (which is always done as a matter of course). Vandalism, on the other hand, is not routine. > [@](#): > > Naturally, the partisan investigation into this “trashiing” cost much more than that. If Bush’s transition was thrown off by a minor annoyance, it speaks volumes for his teams inability to function. Okay, so a few thousand in repairs for malicious vandalism is a minor annoyance, and not to be considered. I don’t think there is much doubt that you would sprain yourself howling if Bush staffers did anything even remotely similar as a joke. Sauce for the goose never seems to be sauce for the gander on the SDMB. If a Republican picks graduates of elite Eastern schools for his cabinet, it is because he is out of touch with the problems of real Americans. If Obama does it, it is because he wants the best and brightest. If Bush pushes a ruinously expensive stimulus package, it is because he is trying to ruin the country on the way out due to malice. If Obama pushes a ruinously expensive stimulus package, it is because he has a cunning plan to end the recession. Bush wants to cut taxes and raise spending, he is a Nazi. Obama promises to cut taxes and increase spending, it is because he is a genius. I’m almost hoping Obama invades Iran or something, just to watch you clowns soil yourselves coming up with rationalizations. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/88 "2008-12-09T22:13:09Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > To be fair they were considering bringing in George Will, but somehow could only manage George ill. George III? I thought you guys had a stick up your ass about him like 232 years ago, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/89 "2008-12-09T22:41:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sauce for the goose never seems to be sauce for the gander on the SDMB. If a Republican picks graduates of elite Eastern schools for his cabinet, it is because he is out of touch with the problems of real Americans. If Obama does it, it is because he wants the best and brightest. Would you please provide an example of a doper deriding a Republican appointee _because_ said appointee is a graduate of an elite Eastern school, rather than for said appointee’s policies and actions? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/90 "2008-12-09T23:03:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Perhaps the Obama transition is going better than that of, for instance, the Bush one because Obama isn’t dealing with people who are so spitefully petty that they trash the White House on their way out. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, after what they’ve done to the country, trashing the White House just seems superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/91 "2008-12-09T23:32:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So?Vandalism, on the other hand, is not routine.Okay, so a few thousand in repairs for malicious vandalism is a minor annoyance, and not to be considered. Certainly compared with the normal costs of a presidential transition, yes. > [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think there is much doubt that you would sprain yourself howling if Bush staffers did anything even remotely similar as a joke. Actually, there is a great deal of doubt on this point. You don’t know me from squat. You, on the other hand, have a clear and consistent knee-jerk reaction to everyone and everything on this board. If some of Bush II’s staff did something that was mildly humourous such as removing the “W” keys, I would go “meh”. Your main problem seems to be that you ascribe devious and malicious motives to everyone here… Project much? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/92 "2008-12-09T23:40:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So?Vandalism, on the other hand, is not routine.Okay, so a few thousand in repairs for malicious vandalism is a minor annoyance, and not to be considered. I thought I remembered a Snopes article that debunked the vandalism story (but confirmed the removal of the W keys), but I just searched and can’t find it. Can anyone else out there give it a shot? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/93 "2008-12-09T23:58:43Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > I thought I remembered a Snopes article that debunked the vandalism story (but confirmed the removal of the W keys), but I just searched and can’t find it. Can anyone else out there give it a shot? The report of the GAO office From the [New York Times](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CEFDE163CF931A25755C0A9649C8B63) It looks like there were some horrifying things done by the outgoing Clinton Staffers\*: > [@](#): > > Six White House employees told investigators that they had seen graffiti derogatory to Mr. Bush on the wall of a stall in a men’s room. Other White House employees saw a sticker in a filing cabinet that said, ‘‘Jail to the thief,’’ implying that Mr. Bush had stolen the 2000 election. It looks like a vast amount of money was spent\*: > [@](#): > > The accounting office confirmed that $9,324 had been spent to repair or replace various items and to clean offices. That included $4,850 for 62 keyboards, $2,040 for 26 cellphones and $1,150 for professional cleaning. \*now, with bonus sarcasm! Interestingly, I did not “sprain myself howling” when: > [@](#): > > The accounting office said similar pranks were reported in prior transitions, including the one from Mr. Bush’s father to Mr. Clinton in 1993. ‘‘We were unable to conclude,’’ it said, ‘‘whether the 2001 transition was worse than previous ones.’’ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/94 "2008-12-10T00:29:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Perhaps the Obama transition is going better than that of, for instance, the Bush one because Obama isn’t dealing with people who are so spitefully petty that they trash the White House on their way out. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, we won’t know that until 1/21/09. [Of course, W is **already** doing plenty of spiteful trashing on his way out.](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15982.html) ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/95 "2008-12-10T00:37:55Z")
“No one could have predicted that rigging a few harmless fireworks in the Oval Office light fixtures would result in the West Wing burning down.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/96 "2008-12-10T00:59:05Z")
“No one could have predicted that leaving a burning cross on the white house lawn would have gotten everyone in such a snit. Man those terrorist loving socialists are sure sensitive!” ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/97 "2008-12-10T01:17:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Your point is not really pertinent to this discussion. Regardless of which president took which action, the phrase “the best and the brightest” refers to the book by David Halberstam of the same title, taken from an earlier, ironic description by Halberstam of the staff that Kennedy assembled who made enormous errors in judgement regarding the goals and the methods employed in the U.S. involvement in Vietnam. I wasn’t making a point in the discussion. I was making a minor historical correction. Yes, Kennedy’s crew pretty much drove the US off the cliff with respect to the conduct of the Vietnam war. However, Kennedy and his crew were _not_ responsible for our presence there. Eisenhower and his administration were. [As an aside, a college history professor of mine said that the reason Eisenhower sent people to Vietnam was because that was France’s price for joining NATO. Can anyone provide information on that?] ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/98 "2008-12-10T01:33:49Z")
I’d actually like to thank **Shodan** for reminding us that while this discussion may be about whether or not Obama is bringing people into his cabinet that are “too smart”, 8 years ago, Bush’s team were whining like little titty babies about missing keys and writing on washroom walls. It gives me great hope for the future. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/99 "2008-12-10T01:38:46Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’d actually like to thank **Shodan** for reminding us that while this discussion may be about whether or not Obama is bringing people into his cabinet that are “too smart”, 8 years ago, Bush’s team were whining like little titty babies about missing keys and writing on washroom walls. > > It gives me great hope for the future. +1 ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295/100 "2008-12-10T02:10:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And Johnson’s the one who REALLY screwed the pooch. (Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?) I have a bad memory. What was it that Nixon did, other than go to China? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-dumb-for-an-obama-presidency/476295.md?page=6)