# Americans are too stupid to be ashamed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894 "2005-09-03T15:33:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/41 "2005-09-08T06:45:36Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > No doubt a high percentage of us are, but there’s also the fact that a majority of us had the balls/ovaries to get rid our own Bush’s substitute fellator-in-chief – just in case Blair’s throat needed a break. > > Maybe, just maybe, as high and mighty as so many of you are and as unbecoming as us poor Spaniards are by comparison, there’s a lesson to be learned there somewhere. > > Just sayin’ that’s all. > > ~Red. Courageous enough to cast my ballot for the PSOE. Well, that’s what I get for trying to be subtle, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/42 "2005-09-08T06:46:03Z")
Well, this is a stupid thread. That said… > [@js\_africanus](#): > > I thought the key problem wasn’t easily predicted: the levies broke. Was that expected? As [_Slate_ Magazine](http://www.slate.com) points out, people have been cognizant of the possibility of the levees giving way since at least 1832. ([Whopper: George W. Bush](http://www.slate.com/id/2125733/)) Then there was this [gripping opening paragraph](http://www.sciamdigital.com/browse.cfm?sequencenameCHAR=item2&methodnameCHAR=resource_getitembrowse&interfacenameCHAR=browse.cfm&ISSUEID_CHAR=1353CDCA-AF4D-4B1D-85F4-5B68F2A7E17&ARTICLEID_CHAR=D58B96E1-60BC-4C0F-BCE2-8C9B8A05275&sc=I100322) from a [_Scientific American_](http://www.sciam.com) article: > [@](#): > > THE BOXES are stacked eight feet high and line the walls of the large, windowless room. Inside them are new body bags, 10,000 in all. If a big, slow-moving hurricane crossed the Gulf of Mexico on the right track, it would drive a sea surge that would drown New Orleans under 20 feet of water. “As the water recedes,” says Walter Maestri, a local emergency management director, “we expect to find a lot of dead bodies.” That was written back on October 2001. Also from 2001 FEMA [did a study of possible catastrophes](http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/3335758) that might hit the United States and ranked a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as threat number 1. Strictly speaking, I think most of these people were talking about the levees being overtopped (water rising so high from a storm surge that it simply flows over the tops of the levees) rather than the levees breaking. (In fact, bad as Katrina apparently was, some of the absolute doomsday scenarios were probably even worse.) Generally, though, people who knew what they were talking about (i.e., people who are not currently serving as President of the United States of America) have been warning for years that New Orleans was a major hurricane disaster waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/43 "2005-09-08T07:09:26Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > Oh, and FYI (from the guy who spent 15 months in Iraq,) for the most part the Iraqi’s ARE grateful to us. Ever been there, or are you still using the big brush? From The Reality Based Community – not that it’s likely to make any sort of dent on your tattooed fantasies. [Retired U. S. Army Colonel Michael Pheneger:](http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Decorated_veteran_and_lifelong_Republican_says_new__Abu_Ghraib_photos_must_be_0830.html) > [@](#): > > Opinion polls have always indicated that most Iraqis (80 – 85 percent) want the U.S. out, though under varying conditions. [Grim Numbers](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217874/site/newsweek/) > [@](#): > > An overwhelming majority, about 80 percent, also say they have “no confidence” in either the U.S. civilian authorities or Coalition forces. Granted those cites are a bit dated since publicly available current poll numbers are hard to come by. Seeing/reading about the situation on the ground, why do you think that is? Furthermore, care to guesstimate how many Iraqis have died as a direct/indirect result of your lawless invasion? How do you think their relatives might feel about their – unnecessary – deaths? No need to respond. All the above questions and facts don’t apply to people who [create their own reality](http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/sloth/2004-10-16b.html) Obviously, you’re hard at work at doing same. If nothing else bet there’s a a movie or a videogame that’s soon to follow. No need ask who the good guys in it will be. Casting is all that’s left. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/44 "2005-09-08T07:20:45Z")
> [@angrydonkey](#): > > …try to explain to illiterate (thanks to America’s pathetic education system) refugees how to use a computer so they can start looking for their lost family members. Oh please. Asians (just like the Jews and Italians and others before them) come here with nothing, and the “terrible school system” doesn’t prevent them from becoming literate and intelligent. Their parents bust their ass and make sure their kids bust their asses in school - and they have a strong stable family unit. Why are Asians’ SAT scores through the roof if the school system is so “terrible?” This has nothing to do with race - I’m pointing out one specific group of people that manages to become educated in this country, even if they are poor, because they work hard. If someone is illiterate in this day and age in the U.S., it’s their fault. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/45 "2005-09-08T07:41:39Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > If someone is illiterate in this day and age in the U.S., it’s their fault. Yep. Kind of like being arrested for driving while being black. * * * **Miller** , I cop to being whooshed. No need to argue with folks that are basically on the same side. Blame my Spanish temper I guess. Still not excusable. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/46 "2005-09-08T07:44:55Z")
You’re going to have to explain what you mean by that. Public school is available to all children in the United States. It is up to them whether they want to study, go to class, and apply themselves. If they do so, they will be literate. If they do not, they may be illiterate. And it’s their fault. They could have learned, and they chose not to. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/47 "2005-09-08T07:47:39Z")
And **RedFury,** I still want an explanation as to how Asian-Americans somehow manage to succeed in this country despite the horrible classism/racism and white male privileges which you insist are part of the US. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/48 "2005-09-08T07:54:02Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > You’re going to have to explain what you mean by that. Really? Tell you what, if you can’t figure it out on your own, you’re beyond explanin’. And with that I bid you adieu, you fucking clueless git. Structural poverty: your next project on the way to full-fledged homo-sapien. Not holding much hope. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/49 "2005-09-08T08:00:00Z")
OK, I think see what you mean. You’re saying that my claim )that someone who is illiterate in the modern U.S. is illiterate of their own accord) is comparable to arresting someone for “driving while black” (in other words, arresting them for nothing.) I think it’s a bad comparison. You can throw insults at me if you want. I haven’t thrown any at you, and I’m not going to. I want you, **RedFury,** to explain how it is that someone in this country, in the modern age, with free access to public schools (funded by taxpayers,) who is illiterate, is somehow illiterate because of something other than their own fault. WHO or WHAT is causing these people to be illiterate? They can go to school. They can read their books. They can study and apply themselves. If they don’t do that, and they don’t know how to read, how is it not their fault? Tell me! I want a discussion here, not a war. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/50 "2005-09-08T11:06:31Z")
> [@angrydonkey](#): > > Touched a nerve, did I? Any nation that lets its weakest die like animals in the street and then devotes all its energies to ducking responsibility and passing blame is clearly corrupt and stagnant. > > For me, Katrina is the end of any sense of duty I have to America. The word itself is just a cheap marketing tool used by charletans to sell a immoral war (one the US will never win, btw). When it is all over, you same idiots will ask “why aren’t the Iraqis grateful?” > > You should be ashamed, instead you are just stupid Oh my God. All you did was rephrase your op to reply to everyone. You are just the most adorable little thing. Yes you is. Oh yes you is. I bet you just get all warm inside thinking about how much better you are than the rest of us for you are the only one that sees things for what they are. God bless ya twinkletoes. **Redfury** , I reserve the right to mock anyone who insists upon using the big brush to spread feces. It doesn’t help that he/she came back in and said almost the exact same thing as opposed to attempting to clear up any misconceptions about his/her op. If he/she has been working at a call center, I can understand why they would be so upset, but that is no excuse for being an ass. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/51 "2005-09-08T11:41:01Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > From The Reality Based Community – not that it’s likely to make any sort of dent on your tattooed fantasies. > > [Retired U. S. Army Colonel Michael Pheneger:](http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Decorated_veteran_and_lifelong_Republican_says_new__Abu_Ghraib_photos_must_be_0830.html) > [Grim Numbers](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5217874/site/newsweek/) > Granted those cites are a bit dated since publicly available current poll numbers are hard to come by. > > Seeing/reading about the situation on the ground, why do you think that is? Furthermore, care to guesstimate how many Iraqis have died as a direct/indirect result of your lawless invasion? How do you think their relatives might feel about their – unnecessary – deaths? > > No need to respond. All the above questions and facts don’t apply to people who [create their own reality](http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/sloth/2004-10-16b.html) > > Obviously, you’re hard at work at doing same. > > If nothing else bet there’s a a movie or a videogame that’s soon to follow. No need ask who the good guys in it will be. Casting is all that’s left. Aah, yes, because a retired Colonel who never put his boots down in the Iraqi sand says so on an online tabloid (not actually addressing Iraqis, but addressing the possible outcome of a second release of abuse photos) and because there was a poll over a year ago (right after the release of the first detainee abuse photos?) it simply MUST be true! Oh yes, and reality! Someone who operates partially on fact and partially on their own intuition must be out of touch with it! Especially if a talking head in a year old op-ed piece says so! This is what I love about European socialists. Soooo rabidly anti-American that openly distorting cites is fully acceptable. Wow. Just…wow. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/52 "2005-09-08T17:32:11Z")
[300,00 Iraqis protest occupation](http://www.perthimc.asn.au/?action=newswire&parentview=9787) – 2005-04-11 > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD, Iraq - Chanting “Death to America” and burning effigies of President Bush and Saddam Hussein, tens of thousands of Iraqis flooded central Baghdad on Saturday in what police called the largest anti-American protest since the fall of Baghdad, the capital, exactly two years ago. > > The peaceful demonstration by angry young followers of Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr underscored the United States’ accomplishments and its failures since the end of the war. > > Once staunch supporters of the U.S. invasion to oust the dictator who ruthlessly suppressed them, many **Shiite Arabs** in Iraq have grown so frustrated by the lingering military occupation, with its checkpoints, raids and use of force, that they took to the streets to call for a deadline for troop withdrawal. (bolding mine) Have another cuppa Kool-Aid, read the Sludge Report and listen to Rush, **fushj00mang**. I’m sure you’ll feel much better afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/53 "2005-09-08T17:49:27Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [300,00 Iraqis protest occupation](http://www.perthimc.asn.au/?action=newswire&parentview=9787) – 2005-04-11 Clicking on that, I get a message board with contributions including “An Anarchist Perspective on Katrina”. Nothing about a protest in Baghdad. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/54 "2005-09-08T17:52:43Z")
Well, it was either go down to NO and be in the way or go to work and make medicine for all the good citizens of North America and Europe(even Spain). I love being too stupid to be ashamed because it means I don’t feel bad for doing that. And I applaud your attempt to shame the people of this nation with your OP, but as you noted we’re too stupid to be ashamed. So what was the point of your OP? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/55 "2005-09-08T18:09:56Z")
**fushj00mang** : Do you deny that many (possibly most, I’ve not read them all) polls out of Iraq paint a picture of the Iraqi citizens not liking our troops, and wanting them gone? ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/56 "2005-09-08T18:16:23Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Clicking on that, I get a message board with contributions including “An Anarchist Perspective on Katrina”. Nothing about a protest in Baghdad. :dubious: It’s an L. A. Times article. Here’s a link to the reprint: [http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050411/REPOSITORY/504110456/1037/NEWS04](http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050411/REPOSITORY/504110456/1037/NEWS04) ---
**Author:** ![Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/57 "2005-09-08T18:31:50Z")
Your glass of Kool-Aid is half empty, **Red Fury** From the same article: > [@](#): > > At the same time, the fact that so many protesters were able to gather and freely voice their opinions without bloodshed or insurgent attacks suggests Iraq is making progress toward establishing a democratic system and creating a strong security force. > > “This is the first manifestation of freedom in Iraq,” said Lt. Ali Muhsin of the Iraqi National Guard, raising his voice to be heard over the din of protesters. “We have never witnessed such a thing before. In the old days, people would only have been able to do this if they were hailing Saddam. Now they are protesting for their rights.” Mine is half full. > [@RedFury](#): > > Have another cuppa Kool-Aid, read the **Sludge Report** \ -50 credibility points for deliberate misspelling. (See also KKKlinton, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/58 "2005-09-08T18:56:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Clicking on that, I get a message board with contributions including “An Anarchist Perspective on Katrina”. Nothing about a protest in Baghdad. :dubious: Not sure why that is. Original article is from the LA Times. [Found it here as well.](http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/2111/300_000_Iraqis_protest_American_invasion) Trust that one works. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/59 "2005-09-08T18:59:24Z")
Oops! Never mind! :smack: Thanx, **Rufus Xavier** * * * Sure thing, **Twin**. As we all know, Freedom’s on the march, yada yada yada… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894/60 "2005-09-08T19:24:53Z")
> [@angrydonkey](#): > > Fuck you. Right back atcha, shitferbrains. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-too-stupid-to-be-ashamed/319894.md?page=4)