# Americans: Are you Conservative, Moderate or Liberal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824 "2017-07-21T19:15:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/61 "2017-07-24T15:58:04Z")
I consider myself a moderate. Socially liberal, fiscally…muddled. I used to be way more fiscally conservative and, at least by this boards standards probably still am considered a conservative, but by US standards I’d say I’m definitely middle of the road moderate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/62 "2017-07-24T16:45:59Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Also, I align with American conservatives on some points, like gun rights and free speech absolutism. Gun rights, okay. Free speech absolutism? Have you been following our politics lately? [One small example:](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/june_2017/66_of_gop_voters_say_comey_should_be_prosecuted_for_leaking_to_media): two thirds of Republicans want Comey prosecuted for making his memos public. Couple that with the attacks on the press by our president, and the only way to align with American conservatives on free speech absolutism is to oppose it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/63 "2017-07-24T17:03:56Z")
To everybody’s surprise, liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/64 "2017-07-24T17:43:50Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > There is definitely a correlation between religious beliefs or lack thereof and party affiliation, but it’s important to note that “agnostics, atheists, Buddhists, UUs, etc. are mostly supporters of the Democratic Party”–which is true; 69% of Buddhists are Democrats or lean Democrat, as are 54% of the “nones”–is not the same thing as “supporters of the Democratic Party are mostly agnostics, atheists, Buddhists, UUs, etc.”. > > Some actual data (from 2014) from the [Pew Research Center](http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/party-affiliation/) indicates that Democrats are less religious than independents, who are less religious than Republicans; even so, 55% of Democrats/Democratic-leaning voters believe in God and are “absolutely certain” about that belief–that’s lower than the corresponding numbers for Republicans/Republican-leaning voters (73%) or independents (62%), but it’s still a majority of the Democratic Party electorate expressing a strong belief in God. Another 21% of Democrats are “fairly certain” there is a God (which could probably be anything from a wishy-washy apatheist, to a deeply devout person who nonetheless constantly “struggles with her faith”–hell, it turns out Mother Teresa [had doubts about the existence of God](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-teresa-letters-idUSN2435506020070824)). 13% of Democrats straight up don’t believe in God. (The comparable numbers of Republicans and independents who don’t believe in God at all are 5% and 9%, respectively.) Yes but democrats are a coalition that includes, among others, Hispanics and blacks, many of whom are religious. Liberals make up maybe 30-50% of the democratic coalition. I don’t know the stats for them, but if 13% of democrats are atheists, I would assume the share of liberal democrats who are atheists is higher, possibly 20%+. But I don’t have cites for that. I’m looking for info about the religious beliefs of sanders supporters vs Clinton supporters and coming up short. I know religious liberals and they are obviously welcome to the party, but my personal experience has shown me a lot of Liberals are various kinds of secular. Even the religious ones many times use religion more as a psychological tool than a testament of faith. I’d wager liberals are one of the most secular political subgroups. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/65 "2017-07-24T17:57:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Gun rights, okay. Free speech absolutism? Have you been following our politics lately? [One small example:](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/june_2017/66_of_gop_voters_say_comey_should_be_prosecuted_for_leaking_to_media): two thirds of Republicans want Comey prosecuted for making his memos public. Couple that with the attacks on the press by our president, and the only way to align with American conservatives on free speech absolutism is to oppose it. Oh yeah, they’re a bunch of hypocrites, don’t get me wrong. Both “sides” have things they think are off limits. But liberals are the ones more likely to use some nuance and mention things like “you can’t yell ‘Fire!’ in a crowded theater,” whereas conservatives are more likely to verbally support hard line free speech in all cases, even while shouting “treason!” and “lock him up!” every time somebody on TV says something they don’t like. Despite that hypocrisy, I think the current crop of conservatives (defined as Trump supporters and Breitbart readers, say, as opposed to National Review readers and Reagan supporters, for example) are more likely to at least _claim_ support for my kind of free speech. Also, I’m pro-_Citizen’s United_ and that’s one of the big points of disagreement I have with my liberal friends. There’s an awful lot of self-proclaimed conservatives against that ruling too, however. It’s not an entirely partisan issue. But yeah, that blatant hypocrisy is part of why I chose “liberal” in the poll, despite not fully identifying with that term. It’s just slightly more apt than the others. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/66 "2017-07-24T19:02:30Z")
Plugging percentages into the number of _active_ posters, we get approximately 388 active conservative posters. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/67 "2017-07-24T19:05:15Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I’m so liberal I can’t even see moderate from here. Surprisingly, I was pretty conservative when I was younger, mostly as a result of my dad’s influence. I also started off life as a conservative. Was a centrist from my 20s through my early 40s, and have identified as a liberal since then. And I _can_ see moderate from here, but I need a good pair of binoculars. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/68 "2017-07-24T20:05:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Plugging percentages into the number of _active_ posters, we get approximately 388 active conservative posters. ??? Can you show us your math? I’m assuming you didn’t just take the % from the poll and multiply by the number of active posters. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/69 "2017-07-24T20:09:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > ??? Can you show us your math? I’m assuming you didn’t just take the % from the poll and multiply by the number of active posters. That’s exactly what he said he did. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/70 "2017-07-24T20:12:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > ??? Can you show us your math? I’m assuming you didn’t just take the % from the poll and multiply by the number of active posters. Very rough math, but 9.5 percent of people polled conservative and(assuming they were all active posters) 4087 active posters gives us 388 active conservative posters. If you can fine-tune this figure it would of course be very appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/71 "2017-07-24T23:24:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Very rough math, but 9.5 percent of people polled conservative and(assuming they were all active posters) 4087 active posters gives us 388 active conservative posters. If you can fine-tune this figure it would of course be very appreciated. Hmmm. Looks like you did what I assumed you didn’t do, so help is going to be, as they say in Japan, “very difficult”. But, we can say a few things: 1. You are measuring Americans, but “active posters” includes lots of non-Americans. So the actual number is going to be considerably lower than you calculated. If we assume that 2/3 of the posters here are Americans (an educated guess on my part), that would change your number to 259. 2. However (and this is the real problem), an internet poll is not a random sample, so we can’t really calculate the margin of error. About all we can say is that it is probably somewhere between “a very small number” and “a very large number”. The “very large number” will decrease as more people take the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/72 "2017-07-24T23:30:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > All I asked was which of the three choices offered did you believe yourself closest to be, however you define the term. If you think the question is tied somehow to party or political platform that’s on you, not me. Agreed. I was responding to someone else who took a strong opinion on the subject; all I did was observe that there is more than one way to interpret the terms. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/73 "2017-07-25T05:12:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Yes but democrats are a coalition that includes, among others, Hispanics and blacks, many of whom are religious. > > Liberals make up maybe 30-50% of the democratic coalition. I don’t know the stats for them, but if 13% of democrats are atheists, I would assume the share of liberal democrats who are atheists is higher, possibly 20%+. But I don’t have cites for that. I’m looking for info about the religious beliefs of sanders supporters vs Clinton supporters and coming up short. > > I know religious liberals and they are obviously welcome to the party, but my personal experience has shown me a lot of Liberals are various kinds of secular. Even the religious ones many times use religion more as a psychological tool than a testament of faith. I’d wager liberals are one of the most secular political subgroups. I did find this. Pew divided political groups into 9 groups. There are 3 groups on the left. Solid Liberals Next Generation Left Faith and Family Left Solid Liberals and the Next Generation Left are pretty consistent in being the most secular, most likely to believe in evolution. But Secular Liberals are far and away the most likely group to think that religious books were written by men, not deities. 63% of solid liberals think holy books were written by men, vs 44% of next generation left, and 10% of faith and family left. Only 19% of solid Liberals attend religious services weekly or more. [http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/26/typology-comparison/holy-books/](http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/26/typology-comparison/holy-books/) > **[Evolution: A Timeline](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/02/04/evolution-a-timeline/)** > > Updated February 3, 2014  1809 Charles Darwin is born to a wealthy family in Shropshire, England.  1831 Darwin begins a five-year voyage as a ship's [http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/26/typology-comparison/attend-religious-services/](http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/26/typology-comparison/attend-religious-services/) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/74 "2017-07-25T16:14:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. This isn’t the 20 question Nolan Chart quiz, and doesn’t pretend to be. > 2. If you think you can create a political poll that satisfies everyone, I invite you to give it a try-I think it would be a first. > 3. Nobody is insisting that you personally take my little poll. 1. Okay, how about the quiz on the [Advocates for Self-Government](https://www.theadvocates.org/) page? They’re the ones who cranked the original Nolan chart 45-degrees CCW in the first place and it’s down to ten questions. Still too complicated? 2. I was pointing out that the old left-right axis is no longer adequate in any sense of the word. Satisfying more, while not satisfying everyone, is better than satisfying fewer. 3. Can’t tell you how happy I am at hearing that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/75 "2017-07-25T16:31:56Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > 1. Okay, how about the quiz on the [Advocates for Self-Government](https://www.theadvocates.org/) page? They’re the ones who cranked the original Nolan chart 45-degrees CCW in the first place and it’s down to ten questions. Still too complicated? > > 2. I was pointing out that the old left-right axis is no longer adequate in any sense of the word. Satisfying more, while not satisfying everyone, is better than satisfying fewer. > > 3. Can’t tell you how happy I am at hearing that. 1. Not interested in conducting a ten part questionnaire, just a simple poll. In a free forum such as this one such an attempt would meander all over the place and a high percentage of posters wouldn’t bother to even answer all ten questions. 2. Again, If you think you can get a better response your way, please go for it. 3. And I am happy for you. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/76 "2017-07-25T16:33:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. This isn’t the 20 question Nolan Chart quiz, and doesn’t pretend to be. > 2. If you think you can create a political poll that satisfies everyone, I invite you to give it a try-I think it would be a first. > 3. Nobody is insisting that you personally take my little poll. 1. Here is another on the Advocates for Self-Government site. They’re the ones who turned the original Nolan chart 45-degrees CCW in the first place and it’s down to ten questions. Still too complicated? 2. Satisfying more, while still not everyone, is better than satisfying fewer. I was pointing out how using a system devised in [1789](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum#History_of_the_terms) is no longer adequate in today’s world. 3. Since I don’t fit, I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/77 "2017-07-25T16:53:17Z")
My thinking runs between moderate to liberal(slightly more to the liberal side), so I put myself down as “Liberal”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/78 "2017-07-25T17:02:57Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I mostly identify as liberal but I selected ‘‘Moderate’’ because I took a fairly convincing test that says I’m a moderate. I don’t know what to call myself these days. > > Progressive moderate, let’s say. This is pretty much me. I generally self-identify as “liberal,” but I end up as “moderate” compared to the leftist friends I have. So I identified as “moderate” for the purposes of this poll. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/79 "2017-07-25T19:17:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Hmmm. Looks like you did what I assumed you didn’t do, so help is going to be, as they say in Japan, “very difficult”. But, we can say a few things: > > 1. You are measuring Americans, but “active posters” includes lots of non-Americans. So the actual number is going to be considerably lower than you calculated. If we assume that 2/3 of the posters here are Americans (an educated guess on my part), that would change your number to 259. > > 2. However (and this is the real problem), an internet poll is not a random sample, so we can’t really calculate the margin of error. About all we can say is that it is probably somewhere between “a very small number” and “a very large number”. > > The “very large number” will decrease as more people take the poll. I did say it was a rough estimate, and your correction about active posters not all being from the U.S., and the subsequent correction in numbers, is much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824/80 "2017-07-25T20:28:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > This is pretty much me. I generally self-identify as “liberal,” but I end up as “moderate” compared to the leftist friends I have. So I identified as “moderate” for the purposes of this poll. I thought I was far-left liberal until I took the Nolan test, and it calls me moderate progressive (with emphasis on the socially liberal side of things.) I thought it was an interesting lesson in self-perception. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-are-you-conservative-moderate-or-liberal/791824.md?page=5)