# Americans awake to a major terrorist attack: How many of us automatically suspect a false flag? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 18, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146 "2017-02-18T14:44:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/41 "2017-02-19T13:56:36Z")
Indeedy-do. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/42 "2017-02-19T14:56:42Z")
I don’t trust this administration one bit, but I wouldn’t suspect a false flag attack without overwhelming evidence that this was the case. What I _would_ suspect is that any statements from the administration _about_ the attack would be very likely to be inaccurate, and should not be trusted without fact-checking. It’s much more Trump’s style to take existing events and put a self-serving spin on them, or, in some cases, to fabricate events outright; I can’t really see him, or even Bannon, _causing_ an attack when it’s much easier and less risky to wait for one to happen and then lie about it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/43 "2017-02-19T15:52:09Z")
[Well, we do have that Swedish terrorist attack this morning…](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/19/sweden-trump-cites-non-existent-terror-attack) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/44 "2017-02-19T15:56:40Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > [Well, we do have that Swedish terrorist attack this morning…](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/19/sweden-trump-cites-non-existent-terror-attack) Noticed this interesting (off-topic)bit. > [@](#): > > Some Swedes were baffled by the comments. One of Sweden’s official Twitter accounts, controlled by a different citizen each week, [currently a school librarian](https://twitter.com/sweden), That is so _cool_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/45 "2017-02-19T20:29:46Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Of course, Frankie forced Pearl Harbor. Not true. Weird conspiracy theory time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/46 "2017-02-19T20:31:38Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > No, we’re asking is “Would Donald Trump outright murder his own countrymen because he thought it was a good idea, that the ends justified the means, that it would bring him attention and power, because he was duped into it by people like Bannon, or he believed the people he was killing were less important–even dangerous “enemy of the people” liberals,say–than white billionaires?” > > . Is it possible that Trump would _conside_r it? Maybe. But he’d have to give orders and those guys would say NO or there’d be leaks. Not gonna happen. This is tin foil hat time. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/47 "2017-02-19T20:32:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not true. Weird conspiracy theory time. No, it is true. Read your in-depth history. His oil embargo on Japan was a hostile act, opposed by the America Firsters. He knew it would provoke them, that is why he put it in place. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/48 "2017-02-19T20:39:40Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > One problem is that the genuine terrorists would presumably be just as happy to see an authoritarian government arise in the US. I recall that one of the comments after 9/11 was that we must not let it change our way of life. I think it is perfectly obvious that it has. Start with the TSA. In line with what **Hari Seldon** said, my gut-level reaction would be “our own government is about to do far far worse by us than the terrorists”. It’s _always_ been my fear, or at least since I was old enough to sort such stuff out. Sooner or later, someone — the Symbionese Liberation Army clone of the current moment — was going to set off a small nuke in a major western city and then BOOM! police state, to protect us. It’s not a whole lot more or less scary if the terrorist attack is faked. It’s the same issue either way. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/49 "2017-02-19T20:45:17Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > No, it is true. Read your in-depth history. His oil embargo on Japan was a hostile act, opposed by the America Firsters. He knew it would provoke them, that is why he put it in place. That in no way “forced” Pearl Harbor. A hostile act doesn’t have to be met with an attack on our naval abilities. The logic doesn’t even make sense–why would attacking us actually cause us to pull back? Attacking us gives us means the people can now be convinced they have to go to war. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/50 "2017-02-19T21:54:44Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > No, it is true. Read your in-depth history. His oil embargo on Japan was a hostile act, opposed by the America Firsters. He knew it would provoke them, that is why he put it in place. “Hostile”? :dubious:Compared to the invasion of China? Rape of Nanking? Invasion of Indochina? Look, yes, the USA put mild economic sanctions on Japan for its aggressive wars. > **[Nanjing Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre)** > > Taishō era > Shōwa era > The Nanjing Massacre\[b\] or the Rape of Nanjing (formerly romanized as Nanking\[c\]) was the mass murder of Chinese civilians by the Imperial Japanese Army in Nanjing, the capital of the Republic of China, immediately after the Battle of Nanking and retreat of the National Revolutionary Army during the Second Sino-Japanese War. And the in depth history shows that the USA expected a diplomatic solution. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/51 "2017-02-19T23:00:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “Hostile”? :dubious:Compared to the invasion of China? Rape of Nanking? Invasion of Indochina? Look, yes, the USA put mild economic sanctions on Japan for its aggressive wars. The US was taking a neutral posture toward that fighting over there and n that other place. To cut off the oil pipe – 80% of the fuel that Japan needed to advance its enterprises – was a drastic move on the part of an unallied spectator. This happened in mid-1941 and was not a “mild economic sanction”. It was crippling. As far as the rape of Nanking, that town was in China, not the US. It was not America’s business, who were not the world’s policeman at that time. > [@](#): > > And the in depth history shows that the USA expected a diplomatic solution. What I see do not support that inference. The US was taking a hard line in negotiations, basically demanding that Japan kowtow. There is little indication that they were hoping for or expecting a diplomatic resolution. It seems obvious to me that Frankie wanted the US to get into the global conflict and that this was the quickest route in. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/52 "2017-02-19T23:30:50Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The US was taking a neutral posture toward that fighting over there and n that other place. To cut off the oil pipe – 80% of the fuel that Japan needed to advance its enterprises – was a drastic move on the part of an unallied spectator. This happened in mid-1941 and was not a “mild economic sanction”. It was crippling. > > As far as the rape of Nanking, that town was in China, not the US. It was not America’s business, who were not the world’s policeman at that time. > > What I see do not support that inference. The US was taking a hard line in negotiations, basically demanding that Japan kowtow. There is little indication that they were hoping for or expecting a diplomatic resolution. It seems obvious to me that Frankie wanted the US to get into the global conflict and that this was the quickest route in. I love that “_the fuel that Japan needed to advance its enterpris_es” :rolleyes:. You mean “the fuel that Japan needed to continue it’s illegal and immoral warcrimes and war of aggression”. Kowtow? :rolleyes:All we asked is for Japan to stop it’s illegal and immoral warcrimes and war of aggression. In fact it seems like we were willing to let them keep Manchukuo as a puppet state, even. Read _Japan 1941: Countdown to Infamy_ the USA was trying for a diplomatic resolution. In any case, \*the Japanese could have just fucking stopped their stupid war. \* ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/53 "2017-02-20T00:19:18Z")
I think it’s much more likely we will see more and more Bowling Green Massacres. Sweden is the latest victim of a stealth attack. > [@eschereal](#): > > It seems obvious to me that Frankie wanted the US to get into the global conflict and that this was the quickest route in. It’s always interesting when someone uses “obvious” about something not supported by history. The situation was far more complex and actually requires some understanding of the events as well as FDR’s thoughts and actions as well as the other parties involved. However, this is all a hijack and would be better served in a separate thread. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/54 "2017-02-20T00:27:34Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I think it’s much more likely we will see more and more Bowling Green Massacres. Sweden is the latest victim of a stealth attack. > It’s always interesting when someone uses “obvious” about something not supported by history. > > The situation was far more complex and actually requires some understanding of the events as well as FDR’s thoughts and actions as well as the other parties involved. > > However, this is all a hijack and would be better served in a separate thread. Right, start another thread then, eschereal, if you want. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/55 "2017-02-20T00:31:49Z")
Wouldn’t even enter my mind. Now awake to the news that “America just foiled a major terrorist attack” and my hinky-meter would be screaming off the charts. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/56 "2017-02-20T00:34:05Z")
When the 9th circuit stayed the immigration ban, The Apprentice said “If there is a terrorist attack, blame them” my first thought was he or Putin would make sure that happened. Hope It’s just my over active imagination coming up with that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/57 "2017-02-20T02:03:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, yes, the USA put mild economic sanctions on Japan for its aggressive wars. Aggressive? America had its entire naval fleet anchored in a harbor in the middle of an ocean, to which Japan had an equal claim. What were the Americans doing “defending” an entire ocean for itself? America had a Monroe Doctrine, empowering it to control two continents against meddling from abroad, with the same level of authority that Japan was using to exercise its influence over its own geographical sphere. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/58 "2017-02-20T18:31:39Z")
The U.S. did not “claim” the Pacific Ocean. The U.S. defended open transit of international waters. Meanwhile Japan was invading other countries. Any equating of the two is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/59 "2017-02-20T18:52:57Z")
Perhaps start a new thread for the WWII discussion? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146/60 "2017-02-20T21:07:22Z")
I’d love to see one concrete example of a false flag (and, no, the Reichstag fire was not one\*). “False flag” is just a rallying cry for conspiracy theorists who have limited grasp of how things work outside of comic books. What _would_ happen is that the Trump administration embarked on a policy to provoke an attack. ISIS’s whole reason for being is to argue that the US hates Muslims, and this plays right into their hands. Eventually, someone may buy into their argument and perform an attack. The person doing it will not necessarily have anything to do with ISIS except to listen to their propaganda (ISIS takes credit for any attack by Muslims against the West, but nearly all of them are people acting on their own.) It would be a real attack, but its root would be in the policies of our government. . \*Van der Lubbe confessed to it, and this was to the Berlin police before the Nazis took it over. He may have had help, but it’s clear from accounts that Hitler was surprised when it happened. Hitler, however, was always an opportunist, and he took advantage of the event, just like the took advantage of events many times in his rise to power. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-awake-to-a-major-terrorist-attack-how-many-of-us-automatically-suspect-a-false-flag/780146.md?page=4)