# American's Chinese wife denied toursit visa from Shanghai embassy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898 "2003-01-06T06:55:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![senor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@senor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senor)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/1 "2003-01-06T06:55:39Z")
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Hola! I am an American teacher living and working in China, and I was married to a lovely professional woman over a year ago. We wanted to go to the United States to visit my aging parents (my father has throat cancer) and to show my wife where I lived, my school, some friends and all that. Then we were going to go back to China. The MFs (MF stands for Mother F@@@ers) turned her down for the visa, why, I do not know. We are in our mid 30s, professional people who just desire a vacation (my parents would have paid round trip) for one, and to see my folkes. This is another thing that kills me, I was not allowed into the interview room to “plead” our case to the bitch who said no. Also, this fucking bitch is Chinese, not even American. (Who would probably get denied also. Lastly, to add insult to injury, the application fee is 100 USD non refundable, plus a hotel room and other expenses. Another thing about this whole fucking mess is that we can reapply again, pay the 100 bucks (again), but on the application we have to state that we have been denied a visa once before, so we are getting dinged for something out of our control. Bullshit. I like China very much, despite its problems. It is advancing very rapidly, and its people are getting more opportunities here. For myself, coming to Communist Red China was a breeze. I flew into Hong Kong, went to an open air office in the middle of the airport, filled out some paperwork, paid about 100 USD and BAM, I get a three month tourist visa. I have also been warmly welcomed by many Chinese here whom I have had the privilidge of knowing. I want to start a business selling artwork and wood sculptures or maybe an English training center with a Chinese friend. America? Today, I hate America. Fuck you America. You have insulted my wife and if it wasn’t for my mother and father, I would never, ever come home. Land of freedom? Fuck you, guns on the streets everywhere, crime and drugs. Land of opportunity? Shit jobs, high taxes, too expensive to live anywhere decent. I am a teacher overseas to a small degree that I do not want to get shot or beat up by a student with a grudge and a gun. By the way, FUCK 9/11.Who crashed the planes into the WTC.?Fucking brown skinned Muslim fanatic bastards. But in the mind set of the USA all foreigners “just might” be plane crashing animals bent for destruction. Who are the main fucking terrorists on our streets? Its the mother fucking homeboys on the street slinging dope. I wont tell you what color they are (because that’s racist). To the American embassy and all you sorry bastards who work for the IRS, Post office, driver’s license bureau, and the utility/phone companies is a simple fuck you and eat shit. Lastly, the mother fucking worthless CIA and FBI couldn’t stop another 9/11 if it tried. All 911 does is to keep a bunch of fascist former nobodies from keeping my father and mother seeing their lovely daughter-in-law. SENOR ---
**Author:** ![Emperor\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c2a13f/32.png) [@Emperor\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emperor_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/2 "2003-01-06T07:02:27Z")
Yeah… okay. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/3 "2003-01-06T07:18:50Z")
Guns, shit jobs, high taxes, crime, gangs, drugs, the CIA, the FBI…You don’t even live here anymore–why the fuck do YOU care? Go back to China, enjoy to the fullest their lack of guns and gangs and drugs and crime, their excellent jobs, their low taxes, their total absence of government agencies that deny visas to angels and can’t stop terrorism. :rolleyes: BTW… [http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/06/12/china.guns/](http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/06/12/china.guns/) > [@](#): > > China’s ‘Strike Hard’ yields guns and explosives > June 12, 2001 Posted: 5:55 AM EDT (0955 GMT) > > The ‘Strike Hard’ campaign began just days after a series of bombings in Shijiazhuang > > By staff and wire reports > > BEIJING, China – China’s three-month-old “Strike Hard” campaign against crime has unearthed 1,600 tons of illegal explosives and more than 330,000 guns. > > The Ministry of Public Security’s newspaper, the China Police Daily, reported the latest figures on Tuesday, adding that some 3.5 million detonators and 1.5 million bullets had also been seized. > > Police said they had cracked more than 35,000 cases involving illegal explosives and guns this year and charged more than 63,000 people, the paper also said. > > Privately owned firearms and explosives are illegal in China, but made in the thousands by illegal workshops. [http://chinaunique.com/business/taxes.htm](http://chinaunique.com/business/taxes.htm) > [@](#): > > Fees are a part of life in China. You will incur fees whether starting up a manufacturing operation, a marketing house, a distribution channel or importing product. Fees and licences for power hook-up, installations, permits, etc are no small items. > > The Chinese government looks at fees as a way to generate more revenues. As a result, they are constantly looking at what companies are doing and frequently change both taxes and fees(often hidden) in an effort to maximize those tax revenues. It is beneficial to ask about fees upfront, but do not expect a clear or complete answer. At best, hope for an answer to the direct fee you are questioning. This is prevalent all over the country. Benchmarking can sometimes provide better insight to what fees may be imposed and how big they may be. If starting up a factory for example, contact a few firms who have just set up shop in the area for an idea of what to expect. A Google search for “drug problem china” returned 396,000 hits. And I bet you can’t guess what color _their_ skins are. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/4 "2003-01-06T07:22:34Z")
The US tightened up on issuing to visas to people from Muslim countries (driving many Saudis, Malaysians, etc to schools elsewhere). But your wife is PRC Chinese - what makes you think 9-11 has anything to do with this refusal? I know several people in your position (approx) who have had no problem. My guess would be that you haven’t been married long enough to reassure the MFs that your wife won’t vanish once in the US never to be seen by them (or you) again. It happens, and innocent people suffer as a result. ---
**Author:** ![TitoBenito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2acd7d/32.png) [@TitoBenito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoBenito)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/5 "2003-01-06T07:59:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by senor \* > \*\*:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: > By the way, FUCK 9/11.Who crashed the planes into the WTC.?Fucking brown skinned Muslim fanatic bastards. But in the mind set of the USA all foreigners “just might” be plane crashing animals bent for destruction. Who are the main fucking terrorists on our streets? Its the mother fucking homeboys on the street slinging dope. I wont tell you what color they are (because that’s racist). > SENOR \*\* What color? and why does this have anything to do with your problem? ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/6 "2003-01-06T08:21:05Z")
Sorry to hear about your dad. Re: visa, sounds like you could use legal advice. That said, a lot of the laws don’t make sense. I think it would be easier to get a visa if you are merely engaged rather than married. At least that’s what this somewhat strange site says: [http://www.thelovemall.tv/information/prg2b7.shtml](http://www.thelovemall.tv/information/prg2b7.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/7 "2003-01-06T10:33:02Z")
Senor, rant here but do not lose your temper, whine or bitch in front of the US embassy people. Call the embassy at 6433 6880 and get the fax number. Write a professional fax to Mr. Walsh, American Consul. At least 3 months ago he was the head guy. I have dealt with him numerous times. Also, IIRC Tuesdays and Thursdays at 4:30-5:30, American citizens can go to the American Citizens Services section and speak with a US embassy official about particular cases. Say that this is your first experience. Obviously, you must have done something wrong with the application or failed to put in additional meaningful information that would have made the application more favorable. If you just filled out the form correctly, then I can understand in the thinking of the embassy why it was denied. Does not excuse it but does explain. That local staff behind the window just fills out the ticks, and if there are too many ticks then it is denial of visa. If you provide additional information in writing, the correct information, then it helps. Eg, spouse is a US citizen, work information, bank accounts, anything you can think of (or get the embassy people to suggest that you include) that would allay their fears your wife would do a runner in the US. suggest to Mr. Walsh or other senior embassy people that you would really like advise on how to do this correctly and you would like to resubmit the application. You can also politely ask if there is any room to waive the fee second time around. DO NOT LOSE YOUR TEMPER Mr. Walsh is a career bureaucrat with a pretty daunting and thankless job. Help him make it easy to help you. Do not demand anything. Be calm and professional, and even flat out ask him how you can resubmit the visa application to avoid whatever knocked your wife out this time. Believe me, I know how frustrated you are at this time, but do not let your frustration get in the way. Good luck and you can post more here. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/8 "2003-01-06T10:57:58Z")
You might have checked with a lawyer before applying for a visa, or better yet before getting married. I may be completely off track here, but from what I’ve been told about my own case: Your wife was probably turned down for what I assume was a tourist visa _precisely because she is your wife_. Now that she’s married to an American citizen, the INS and State Department are going to assume that she is an “intending immigrant”. That means that the _only_ way she is going to get into the US now is on an immigrant visa. No, in their view, spouses don’t come to the US just for a visit, it’s immigration or nothing. I was told all this well before 9/11, so the pertinent regulations have been in place for a while now. It may not be fair, but it certainly isn’t secret. Marrying a foreign national is a serious undertaking, and I don’t have much sympathy if the OP pleads ignorance. If someone in this situation thinks everything is going to be easy, he’s going to have to learn a harsh lesson sooner or later. At least be aware that it isn’t nearly as bad as it could have been. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/9 "2003-01-06T10:59:23Z")
China Guy or others feel free to correct me if I’ve made any errors here. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/10 "2003-01-06T11:17:42Z")
I have no experience with the US embassy in China but **have** taken my foreign wife into the US several times on tourist visas, last time being June or July. The embassy in Saudi had no problems at all giving her a multiple entry visa valid for (I think) five years. We’ve been married for 18 years so that might change things but the embassy here was extremely helpful about things. On the other hand, I **completely** agree with you on the “serious undertaking” part. The amount of paperwork required for a residence/work visa is incredible and will probably get worse as the paranoia in Washington increases. Regards. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/11 "2003-01-06T11:42:38Z")
Thanks for correcting my impression, Testy. I would follow up to say that for the INS at least, everything boils down to whether a visitor’s _intention_ matches the visa he or she has been issued. If someone comes to the US on a tourist visa, but the INS suspects that his or her real intention was to marry someone or settle down with a spouse, that person will be deported (and maybe barred from entering the US for 5 years, for 10 years, or for life). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/12 "2003-01-06T11:48:38Z")
Doghouse, I have been told personally by US embassy staff in China including Mr. Walsh that if you are intending to reside in China and not the US, then they highly recommend not starting the immigrant visa towards a green card. An immigrant visa is for, well, immigrants. You have to visit the US at least once every 12 months or you lose the immigrant visa (eg conditional green card). You can also apply for a re-entry permit. Assuming that the OP is married less than two years, then he will get a conditional green card. Living abroad and applying to turn your conditional permanent residence (conditional green card) into a “permanent” permanent residence (regular green card) for all effective purposes can not be done if you live outside the US. Trust me on this one - [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75000&highlight=citizen+services](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75000&highlight=citizen+services) (actually, a rant on another immigration topic in China but…) Hate to say this to senor, although both you and I think our spouses should automatically receive a tourist visa, that is not the case. Again, I can not stress enough that you’ve got to put a smile on your face and do an Opie Taylor impression with Mr. Walsh or whomever is manning the post. They hate their job. They get villified for doing what they have to do. So, you need to bend over backwards to make it easy for them. Calling them storm troopers and red guard wannabees may be satisfying, but please resist the temptation. You can also try reaching the immigration woman in the US embassy in Beijing. I’m sorry but I just can’t remember her name. US bureauracy is a nightmare - certainly equal to anything you will encounter in China. Things take _years_ (took 18 months to get a reply on my daughter’s social security card application. Received information about changing from conditional to permanent green card for my wife about 2 years too late.) and that is no typo. Again, even though I have ranted about Mr. Walsh in this very forum, he also is your best chance. Be nice, be calm, do not piss and moan, do not swear or denigrate, acknowledge his tough role, let him know you and your wife do not take this personally, get his input and you’ll probably get what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/13 "2003-01-06T12:14:09Z")
I guess the difference between my case on the one hand and China Guy’s and Testy’s on the other is that I was in Taiwan at the time but fully intended to come back to the US. So if I had got married in Taiwan and then returned to the US, and then my wife came to see me on a tourist visa, she would likely have been refused entry. That’s the nature of the advice I was given at the time. I guess I erred in thinking that this problem would also hold true for a married couple who are both living abroad. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/14 "2003-01-06T12:16:50Z")
had **gotten** married. Jeeze, how did I let that slip by? It’s almost as bad as asking, “Where are you at?” ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/15 "2003-01-06T12:18:30Z")
I send quite a few people to the US for one reason or another, (training mostly) and have found consulates to be more helpful if the case is doubtful. They are often less busy and thus have more time to talk. The embassies are more “by-the-book”. I don’t know if this is an option for you, **Senor** but give it a try if you can. **Doghouse** , I suspect you’re right about the **perceived** intention of the visitor. We’ve lived in the ME for our entire married life so it’s not much of an issue for us. All the best. Testy Testy. ---
**Author:** ![mikan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mikan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/16 "2003-01-06T13:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > **Doghouse, I have been told personally by US embassy staff in China including Mr. Walsh that if you are intending to reside in China and not the US, then they highly recommend not starting the immigrant visa towards a green card.** Part of the problem in the OP’s case could be that it’s not abundantly clear to the embassy staff where he and his wife are intending to reside. The OP’s occupational plans seem a bit uncertain at the moment (he’s a teacher now but thinking of starting some kind of business), which might give the impression that his roots in China are not so firm, that he could relocate to the U.S. at the drop of a hat. It wouldn’t surprise me if the embassy/INS staff make the default assumption that the OP’s wife is or will be wanting to reside in the U.S., barring any solid evidence to the contrary – they’re not just going to take your word for it. Anyway, best of luck to you, **senor**. I’m sure things will go better the second time around. But like **China Guy** says, keep your cool. ---
**Author:** ![senor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@senor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senor)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/17 "2003-01-06T14:19:08Z")
Hola! It seems to me as an American citizen (which is not worth the paper I wipe my ass on) I should have the right to take my legally wedded wife to my country of residence. But, I do not have this right because of the perception that I may bring in a terrorist or someone who may take a job at Wal Mart or McDonalds from a “real” American. This is how I see it. If I have a child with my wife, the child is an American citizen. Period. This was told to me by these motherfuckers themselves. So, if I have a child, it will be blessed with a nine didget ID (known as Social Security) plus an FBI file, because my kid might blow up a building. The real criminals of our country are many, the press, the lawyers, the insurance companies, and the little miniscule clerks in the world who make personal dossiers of everyone by computers. You know who you are. SENOR ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/18 "2003-01-06T14:38:53Z")
Several people here have tried to analyze your situation, make helpful suggestions, offered sympathy, and wished you luck. You haven’t even acknowledged them. Instead, you’ve stuck your fingers in your ears and continued with your anti-American rant. Fuck it. Fuck you. Stay in China, both of you. BTW, speaking of dossiers: if somebody mentioned to the Public Security Bureau over there in the worker’s paradise that your wife might be a Falun Gong adherent, what do you think would happen? ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/19 "2003-01-06T15:19:01Z")
Senor: You make me cringe every time you post. You call yourself a teacher, but yet every post contains spelling and grammar errors that should be obvious. It saddens me to think that you are what some Chinese will see as their only example of a typical American. ---
**Author:** ![mikan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mikan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898/20 "2003-01-06T15:30:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mikan \* > \*\*Anyway, best of luck to you, **senor**. I’m sure things will go better the second time around. \*\* Comments hereby withdrawn.:smack: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-chinese-wife-denied-toursit-visa-from-shanghai-embassy/146898.md?page=2)