# Americans Condone Rape of Iraqi Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630 "2004-07-17T22:34:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PAWKK\_BO4LL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@PAWKK\_BO4LL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PAWKK_BO4LL)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/1 "2004-07-17T22:34:08Z")
[plastic.com](http://www.plastic.com/article.html;sid=04/07/16/18315994;cmt=134) fake? i hope so… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/2 "2004-07-17T22:49:46Z")
Absolutely not. I not only don’t believe it, I _refuse_ to believe it. Show me a mountain of videotapes, depositions, confessions, I still won’t believe it. I’ve reached my limit, I am sick to puking of being ashamed of my beloved country. I have nothing but respect for Mr. Hersh, he has a record of telling the awful truth regardless, and right at the moment I hate his guts for it. Even if its true, it must _not_ be true. 'Cause I just can’t handle it. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/3 "2004-07-17T23:00:52Z")
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the report does not claim that Americans were raping children. They just videotaped it, while Iraqi adults did the actual raping. Hooray for us. The story has been out since the beginning of the Abu Ghraib coverage, by the way. As it was first reported, it was prisoners who were helping themselves to boys held in the same facility. Hersh now says it was Iraqi “contractors,” whatever that means. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/4 "2004-07-17T23:04:01Z")
So much stuff (from all sources) coming out of Iraq as true, validated and witnessed by three holy men, turns out to be utter, crapalicious BS, so I’m going to adopt a wait and see on this one. US News organizations are as capable as any in the world in investigating stuff if they put their mind to it. If it does turn out to be true and these tapes and pics make to the media (and are validated as true) it’s all over for Bush. Period. End of statement. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/5 "2004-07-17T23:08:44Z")
Damn. I’m with **luci** on this. DAMN. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/6 "2004-07-17T23:10:22Z")
Back during the initial moments of the abuse scandal, didn’t Rumsfield warn us that we hadn’t seen anything yet? Seems like this is the other shoe dropping. I really hope it is because I can’t imagine anything much worse than this. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/7 "2004-07-17T23:47:52Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > The story has been out since the beginning of the Abu Ghraib coverage, by the way. . Yep. I remember when it first broke one of the Senators (the young republican one) also said to prepare for much much worse, using the phrase “rape and murder”. But of course some folks wouldn’t buy that as a possability, kept on insisting that it wasn’t that bad, since all they’d seen was pictures of nekkid men in hoods at the time. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/8 "2004-07-18T00:06:52Z")
Yeah, sounds like frat-style pranks to me… :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/9 "2004-07-18T00:11:06Z")
> [@astro](#): > > US News organizations are as capable as any in the world in investigating stuff if they put their mind to it. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! _wipes tears of laughter from eyes_ Whooo! That was a good one. Considering that today’s media would almost put the old Soviet media to shame, that’s a pretty good joke. Thank goodness for the internet and films. > [@astro](#): > > If it does turn out to be true and these tapes and pics make to the media (and are validated as true) it’s all over for Bush. Period. End of statement. First, Bush gives new meaning to the phrase “teflon president.” If it hasn’t been the end of Bush so far, this little story isn’t going to do it. Second, no one can download and watch copies of the tapes, and publically verify it without fear of arrest, since they would have child pornography on their computers. If tapes are sent through the mail, that’s illegal too. How can this be verified without fear of ending up in Leavenworth and listed as a convicted sex offender? I’m really curious about this. How could it be done? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/10 "2004-07-18T00:32:49Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So much stuff (from all sources) coming out of Iraq as true, validated and witnessed by three holy men, turns out to be utter, crapalicious BS, Really? Like what (I mean besides the presense of WMDs or any shred of a _casus belli_)? Certainly nothing from Abu Ghraib has turned out to be bullshit. Even the WH and Senate Reupuplicans have acknowkedged that we haven’t seen the worst of it. This stuff is apparently on videotape. As incredible as it sounds, US soldiers made videotapes of children being raped. If that had been pitched as a Hollywood script two years ago, the idea would have been immediately dismissed as unrealistic and insulting to US troops. Reality always seems to top our own most pessimistic imaginations. Sy Hersh is a rock solid reporter who would not invent an allegation this fantastic if he didn’t know it as fact. I believe it was Lily Tomlin who said that no matter how cynical you get, it’s still almost impossible to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/11 "2004-07-18T00:36:55Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > First, Bush gives new meaning to the phrase “teflon president.” If it hasn’t been the end of Bush so far, this little story isn’t going to do it. > > Second, no one can download and watch copies of the tapes, and publically verify it without fear of arrest, since they would have child pornography on their computers. If tapes are sent through the mail, that’s illegal too. How can this be verified without fear of ending up in Leavenworth and listed as a convicted sex offender? I’m really curious about this. How could it be done? I’m convinced at this point that Bush could personally rape and decapitate a baby on live television and his supporters say the baby was a terrorist. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/12 "2004-07-18T02:33:45Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Really? Like what (I mean besides the presense of WMDs or any shred of a _casus belli_)? > > Certainly nothing from Abu Ghraib has turned out to be bullshit. Even the WH and Senate Reupuplicans have acknowkedged that we haven’t seen the worst of it. > > This stuff is apparently on videotape. As incredible as it sounds, US soldiers made videotapes of children being raped. If that had been pitched as a Hollywood script two years ago, the idea would have been immediately dismissed as unrealistic and insulting to US troops. Reality always seems to top our own most pessimistic imaginations. Sy Hersh is a rock solid reporter who would not invent an allegation this fantastic if he didn’t know it as fact. > > I believe it was Lily Tomlin who said that no matter how cynical you get, it’s still almost impossible to keep up. I’m thinking about stuff like confident estimates about the insurgent forces being only 5,000 strong, oh…wait that’s 10,000, no wait it’s 20,000, no wait it’s… etc. Also the latest stuff with the alive,dead, alive,dead, alive, held by terrorists, not held by terrorists, deserter/not deserter solider that was in the news lately. The news organizations seem to be throwing whatever monkey poo they can get their hands on up on the wall and hope it sticks. Having said that, if the videotapes of this activity exist, I think it’s going to be a hell of a lot more stomach turning and explosive than the human twister piles with the leering guards we saw a month or two ago. If there are videotapes of screaming children in American custody getting ass raped \*while American soliders looked on and video taped it \* I will guarantee you that the shit that hit the fan for Bush with the initial prison pics will be like a windblown kiss in comparison. People who brushed off the orignal pics and abuses with qualifications about the need to extract information and save lives will have no purchase in the case of children getting raped. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/13 "2004-07-18T02:47:22Z")
Not enough. Rather watch Bush inaugarated as President for Life, with Jenna as Crown Princess. Not nearly enough. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/14 "2004-07-18T03:06:28Z")
Yes. I fear that if any such videotapes are acknowledged or made public that the Leader will simply be “plausibly” divorced from having any culpability or even inirect responsibility. It will simply and regretfully dismissed as yet another batch of bad apples from the Abu Ghraib orchard. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/15 "2004-07-18T06:08:04Z")
…and the Bush apologists will swallow it whole, then hold up their fecal-smeared plates and ask for yet another helping of Bushit. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/16 "2004-07-18T06:23:39Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m convinced at this point that Bush could personally rape and decapitate a baby on live television and his supporters say the baby was a terrorist. You’re really convinced of this? Are you serious or just using hyperbole to make some point? We all know you hate Republicans, but this going rather far for even you. Now, let’s assume this is true. It would have happened in a detention center run excuslively by US armed forces. Therefore the only way it would have been caught on videotape would be a soldier taping it. There are well over 100,000 soldiers serving in Iraq. Are there a few that are just naturally assholes? Of course. But threads like this seek to indict every soldier serving. Moreover, too many people try to equate the actions of over 100k people to one individual. In this case President Bush. (And many, many other cases) Does anyone **honestly** think Bush is truly evil? Or is it a difference in opinion politically? The comparisons to Hitler are laughable, at best. If you hate Bush, that’s your right. I voted and campaigned for him in 2000 and am doing so again this year. But even I don’t think he’s powerful enough to destroy the Republic as I’ve seen claimed here for so long. There are so many other factors that would have to come together to destroy the US than one man. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/17 "2004-07-18T06:34:07Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Does anyone **honestly** think Bush is truly evil? I do. Waxed moustache, virgin-on-the-tracks evil. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/18 "2004-07-18T06:35:47Z")
Who needs an evil man? Look what has already been wrought by a stubborn, arrogant, and self-righteous man? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/19 "2004-07-18T06:40:53Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Does anyone **honestly** think Bush is truly evil? Or is it a difference in opinion politically? The comparisons to Hitler are laughable, at best. I think he’s worse than evil. I think he’s incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/20 "2004-07-18T06:42:33Z")
Does it damn well matter? These acts were perpetrated while he was Commander-in-Chief. If he refuses to take responsibility for what is done under his watch, he is scum, pure and simple. Where does the buck stop, if not the President? A general overseeing? A lieutenant? A captain? I blame those who committed acts of torture, but I also blame the atmosphere and environment. Even decent people will follow orders. I’m pretty sure our ol’ President did not give the order to allow little boys to be raped (good God, I can’t believe I’m actually typing that statement). But it happened on HIS watch. He’s supposed to be making sure that we give the best accounting of ourselves possible in this damn dirty situation. I have great respect for our military, having been a military brat all my life, having grown up in the environment. But the more I hear about what happens today, the more sick I get. I can’t imagine what it’s like for a little kid in this country who’s been told that America’s the best place in the world, the most benevolent country, deserving of our place in the world, finding out that the people we trusted so implicitly have committed the acts their parents warned them about. The ones only bad people do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630.md?page=2)