# Americans Condone Rape of Iraqi Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630 "2004-07-17T22:34:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/121 "2004-07-21T20:46:08Z")
Originally posted by **Diogenes the Cynic** > [@](#): > > - > > I don’t CARE that they grow up differently. I want to know what relevance it has to this topic. What fucking bit of difference does it make as to whether kids were raped at AG or whether that constitutes an attrocity > > You made a statement about their ability to “blow up tanks, the enemy and themselves.” I’m saying so the fuck what? What does that have to do with the topic \* Are you, beside being an insulting asshole, dense as well? The _topic_ is about children, right? Children in the Abu Ghriab prison, right? Maybe _you_ don’t care how children grow up. I do. Jeesus. I didn’t even know people like you _excisted_. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/122 "2004-07-21T20:53:16Z")
> [@gum](#): > > And I’m curious to knowwhy this thread was opened and so greedily posted in? Because if the allegations are true, would this not be a huge deal? And aren’t “huge deals” discussed on message boards? (I also don’t think that people have been posting greedily in this thread, at least compared to the other threads in the Pit.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/123 "2004-07-21T21:03:40Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Originally posted by **Diogenes the Cynic** Are you, beside being an insulting asshole, dense as well? > The _topic_ is about children, right? Children in the Abu Ghriab prison, right? > > Maybe _you_ don’t care how children grow up. I do. > > Jeesus. I didn’t even know people like you _excisted_. The topic is about whether they were raped and what the significance is for the US. What the fuck difference does it make how the victims were raised? Even if they were _guilty_ of something, what difference does it make? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/124 "2004-07-21T21:11:17Z")
I missed a few posts. I don’t think the children are guilty of anything. 😕 Where did I said that? Have you _all_ gone nuts? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/125 "2004-07-21T21:16:53Z")
Thanks to expanded education and the global economy, english has become the most widely misunderstood language in human history. Gentlemen, it is a breath mint. When you realize this, you’re probably both gonna feel kinda silly. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/126 "2004-07-21T21:23:57Z")
What’s a breath mint? In this context? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/127 "2004-07-21T21:25:18Z")
What the fuck is a war country? How long has Iraq been a war country? Who made Iraq a war country? How long does it take, once a nation becomes a war country, for it’s children to become war children? If the pentagon has video of these war-country-child-rapers in action, why haven’t they filed charges? Is there an international convention making child-rape a misdeamenor in war countries? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/128 "2004-07-21T21:30:59Z")
**Gum** , I don’t _know_ what you were implying, that’s what I’m trying to find out. -The topic is about whether children were raped at Abu Ghraib. -You posted some stuff about how kids in Iraq are able to blow stuff up and kill people -I’m trying to assertain why that has relevance to either the factual accuracy of the reports or to the moral significance. It sounded like you were intimating some sort of mitigating circumstances for the rapes or suggesting that victims maybe weren’t so innocent. If that’s not what you meant, then why mention anything at all about their upbringing or their alleged capacity for violence? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/129 "2004-07-21T21:31:49Z")
> [@gum](#): > > I don’t think the children are guilty of anything. Where did I said that? Have you all gone nuts? Maybe it was this: > [@](#): > > Put on your fucking telly and watch how 10/12 year olds throw molotov cocktails at tanks. > > See that litlle line on top of the page? That’s the topic line. It says: ‘Americans rape Iraqi children’. > We are talking about **‘children’** in the Abu Ghraib, are we not? Bolding mine (quotation marks yours). Reading the above plus the original post that set off **DtC** and I, it is clear you were trying convey something else besides “Child rape is bad”. If you aren’t willing to explain what your point is, then you can’t blame us for “misunderstanding” you. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/130 "2004-07-21T21:54:47Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > **Gum** , > > I don’t _know_ what you were implying, that’s what I’m trying to find out. > > -The topic is about whether children were raped at Abu Ghraib. > > -You posted some stuff about how kids in Iraq are able to blow stuff up and kill people > > -I’m trying to assertain why that has relevance to either the factual accuracy of the reports or to the moral significance. > > It sounded like you were intimating some sort of mitigating circumstances for the rapes or suggesting that victims maybe weren’t so innocent. If that’s not what you meant, then why mention anything at all about their upbringing or their alleged capacity for violence? He got caught supporting the rape of children. When confronted with this, he chose to plug up his ears and pretend it wasn’t happening rather than retract or defend his statement. What’s to understand, and more over, what’s to be gained by continuing the discussion with the scumbag? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/131 "2004-07-22T04:47:42Z")
I went to bed thinking you might have found your minds back, by now. [No. I didn’t sleep well] Apparently you haven’t. Originally posted by **monstro** > [@](#): > > - > > Maybe it was this: > Quote: > Put on your fucking telly and watch how 10/12 year olds throw molotov cocktails at tanks. \* Kindly don’t twist my words. You know perfectly well I was describing children in war territories in answer to **Diogenes the Cynic** ’s “kind” questions. > [@](#): > > \*it is clear you were trying convey something else besides “Child rape is bad”. \* Is it? I wonder what kind of person would think that? Originally posted by **Diogenes the Cynic** > [@](#): > > - > > It sounded like you were intimating some sort of mitigating circumstances for the rapes or suggesting that victims maybe weren’t so innocent. If that’s not what you meant, then why mention anything at all about their upbringing or their alleged capacity for violence?\* :rolleyes: There can _never_ be mitigating cicumstances for rape. I was explainging the situation in which the children live. Yes, kids blow up people in that region \*- because they’re in a fucking war-zone - the poor basterds - \* No, rape is NEVER acceptable even if they blew up every goddam person in sight. Is this clear? I shall not anser 'laigle’s notes. They’re beyond contempt. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/132 "2004-07-22T06:20:41Z")
Some futher thoughts: I had a reasonably fun time here. I think I’ll take a break. People here apparently don’t care about children in war zones. I do. And I totally don’t understand the necessity and eagernes \*talking \* of them, being raped. Fucking assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/133 "2004-07-22T06:55:25Z")
> [@gum](#): > > People here apparently don’t care about children in war zones. I do. And I totally don’t understand the necessity and eagernes \*talking \* of them, being raped. Of course we care about the children. All we want to know is why you think the fact that they live in a war zone has anything to do with the topic. How is it relevant? I’m not attacking you here, but please explain what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/134 "2004-07-22T07:53:18Z")
Here’s my take, right or wrong. 1. gum doesn’t seem to believe the underage humans who were said to have been raped at Abu Ghraib were “children.” 2. I assume it’s because the word “children” generally conjures up under 11-year olds, while 12 to 17-year olds seem like slightly younger adults. 2a. (gum indicates as an aside that children of war of all ages are different from children of peace. Their entire mindset is different, and some of them are violent, by themselves, or are easily manipulated into violence. This has nothing to do with AG, and was the throwaway line that caused the confusion.) 1. gum hasn’t heard of any “children” (his definition) being raped at AG. 3a. It’s unclear if gum has heard of any older children or adults being raped at AG. 1. gum doesn’t seem to accept our definition of “children” as being anyone under the age of 18, or perhaps 16. 2. gum, like Chastain86, doesn’t seem to think there’s enough proof for us to go around starting threads and posting willy-nilly about it. Without hard-core (pun not intended) proof, and unless it’s reported by several outlets of the mainstream media, this thread should never have been started. 5a. The many, mostly reputable, sources of the story so far are not good enough to even entertain the possibility of child rape. 1. Not mentioned by gum or anyone else (correct me if I’m wrong) is that no one should be posting in this thread anyway, since the subject line is, as far as we know, wrong. All the indications are that Americans stood by and watched/videotaped while Iraqis did the raping. The Subject Line is very misleading and should be changed. 2. gum likes to call people who misunderstand what he’s saying names. How’d I do? ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/135 "2004-07-22T14:43:31Z")
That sounds about right, **Equipoise**. Thank you for laying it out for us…I have to say, that despite the efforts of **DtC** , **monstro** , et al, the last dozen posts have read like ‘Who’s on First.’ gum- please understand that, whatever your intentions, your off the cuff remarks about the differences between ‘children’ (still not sure what the quotes mean) reads like a rationalization of what has happened to them. You might as well have said, ‘children in war torn countries are known to dress more provocatively that their peaceful counterparts, so we really can’t be too surprised that this happens to them.’ If this is not what you meant, you need to offer some clarification- but the idea that there are just a few isolated posters willfully misinterpreting your words is patently untrue. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/136 "2004-07-22T16:09:55Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > \ > > 1. Not mentioned by gum or anyone else (correct me if I’m wrong) is that no one should be posting in this thread anyway, since the subject line is, as far as we know, wrong. All the indications are that Americans stood by and watched/videotaped while Iraqis did the raping. The Subject Line is very misleading and should be changed. Eh. Maybe only _slightly_ misleading. Not enough to change the actual effect of the acusations. Maybe it should have been: “Americans _Condone_ Raping Iraqi Children.” Certainly, the alleged Americans who allegedly made the alleged child porn movie are as much guilty as the Iraqi men actually who put their penises into the anuses of children. If the events actually occured, turn any Americans even _remotely_ involved over to either an Iraqi court or the ICC, and get anybody else who’s incompentent management and planning made it possible the fuck out of office. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/137 "2004-07-22T18:31:41Z")
I’d like to correct this… > [@Equipoise](#): > > 1. Not mentioned by gum or anyone else (correct me if I’m wrong) is that no one should be posting in this thread anyway, since the subject line is, as far as we know, wrong. All the indications are that Americans stood by and watched/videotaped while Iraqis did the raping. The Subject Line is very misleading and should be changed. I was wrong. Liberal had brought it up 2 pages earlier but I didn’t read back far enough. My apologies to Liberal for not catching it and commenting on it. You were right. The thread title should be changed. I don’t really want to start a new thread, but this topic shouldn’t get lost either. The OP writer was a guest. Can only the OP request to a mod that the thread title be changed? > [@black455](#): > > Maybe only slightly misleading. Not enough to change the actual effect of the acusations. > > Maybe it should have been: > > “Americans Condone Raping Iraqi Children.” > > Certainly, the alleged Americans who allegedly made the alleged child porn movie are as much guilty as the Iraqi men actually who put their penises into the anuses of children. > > If the events actually occured, turn any Americans even remotely involved over to either an Iraqi court or the ICC, and get anybody else who’s incompentent management and planning made it possible the fuck out of office. I agree with all of that . ---
**Author:** ![PAWKK\_BO4LL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@PAWKK\_BO4LL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PAWKK_BO4LL)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/138 "2004-07-22T20:45:33Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I’d like to correct this… > > I was wrong. Liberal had brought it up 2 pages earlier but I didn’t read back far enough. My apologies to Liberal for not catching it and commenting on it. You were right. > > The thread title should be changed. I don’t really want to start a new thread, but this topic shouldn’t get lost either. > > The OP writer was a guest. Can only the OP request to a mod that the thread title be changed? Sorry about the misinterpretation. Moderators: if you would, please modify the thread title to ‘Americans Condone Rape of Iraqi Children’… I’m not sure how to contact someone with the ability to change the subject line, so that’s about the best I can do at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/139 "2004-07-22T22:32:40Z")
The age of consent in Iraq is (was?) 18. IANAL, but I think we can safely say that rape in Iraq of anyone under 18 would be considered child rape. For comparison, the age of consent in the US varies by state, from 14-18, but most states say 16. Worldwide average is also 16. Just trying to help define what we mean by children in Iraq – since that may have been a sticking point for some. Under 18 = child. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630/140 "2004-07-23T00:27:36Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > The age of consent in Iraq is (was?) 18. IANAL, but I think we can safely say that rape in Iraq of anyone under 18 would be considered child rape. For comparison, the age of consent in the US varies by state, from 14-18, but most states say 16. Worldwide average is also 16. > > Just trying to help define what we mean by children in Iraq – since that may have been a sticking point for some. Under 18 = child. Thanks for that Danalan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-condone-rape-of-iraqi-children/255630.md?page=8)