# Americans - how common is this outlook? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599 "2013-08-19T00:00:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/61 "2013-08-19T21:14:30Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > I live in Florida and have a generator I test once a month. I can run the whole house on it for about 3 days. That and switching my TV to a over the air antenna is the extent of my prep. > > However I have a friend that I haven’t seen in over a year because he is on his survival farm and he hasn’t left it in that time. His preparations are as over the top as any I have ever heard of. He sold a security business and is now a full-time survivalist as Obama will blow it all up anytime. I cant visit him anymore since he put in land mines and I don’t know where they are. He has well over a hundred various firearms and over 100,000 rounds of ammo. He also has solar panels and 3 huge propane tanks. I would not be surprised if he has enough food for at least 5 years. Land mines? Where does someone get land mines? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/62 "2013-08-19T21:17:51Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > I live in Florida and have a generator I test once a month. I can run the whole house on it for about 3 days. That and switching my TV to a over the air antenna is the extent of my prep. > > However I have a friend that I haven’t seen in over a year because he is on his survival farm and he hasn’t left it in that time. His preparations are as over the top as any I have ever heard of. He sold a security business and is now a full-time survivalist as Obama will blow it all up anytime. I cant visit him anymore since he put in land mines and I don’t know where they are. He has well over a hundred various firearms and over 100,000 rounds of ammo. He also has solar panels and 3 huge propane tanks. I would not be surprised if he has enough food for at least 5 years. Please report back in 2016-2017 to tell us how he’s handling Obama leaving office without blow it all up. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/63 "2013-08-19T21:34:15Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > \ I cant visit him anymore since he put in land mines and I don’t know where they are. He has well over a hundred various firearms and over 100,000 rounds of ammo. He also has solar panels and 3 huge propane tanks. I would not be surprised if he has enough food for at least 5 years. :eek: I know it’s okee-dokee to stockpile guns, but landmines? And actually install them? That can’t be legal even on one’s own property. Landmines?? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/64 "2013-08-19T21:46:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, if a lot of people survive. If you get a disease disaster with a 99% fatality rate, though, the prospects aren’t nearly so dire. There is still the problem of power, but if the survivors can get into grocery stores there is food and beverage, and you can siphon gas out of cars. > > I agree, there are some serious issues with urban survival, but there are still going to be a lot of people in the cities. If groups of them band together to pool knowledge and resources it might not be too bad, and could be preferable to trying to live in the wilderness with zero wilderness skills. A disease with a “99% fatality rate” is pure fantasy outside of the best dreams of bioweapon researchers. Even the Ebola and Marburg hemorrhagic infections only have maximum mortaility rates of between 60 and 90% depending on strain. A pathogenic virus with a 99% mortality rate would burn out before it could even develop or spread. If there was a calamity that killed 99% of the population of a city and surroundings, there would be so many problems–from loss of electricity and gas in a few hours, to firestorms and lack of water pressure within days–that any city would become largely uninhabitable, not to mention the unmanagable stench of so many bodies rotting for weeks on end. Most of the food in grocery stores and warehouses, save for processed junk food or dry starches like rice, sugar, and white flour is going to go bad in a few days to a few weeks, after which there is going to be anything left to forage. Cities are not designed to be self-sustaining, and in fact most of the modern conveniences of cities are specficially designed to rely on resources and processing that is outside of the city in order to allow for high urban density. This makes cities nice places to live when civilization and the attendant logistical and manufacturing systems can support them, but a horrible place to attempt to survive for any significant duration in absence of these services. > [@Broomstick](#): > > A week’s worth _at current population levels_ you mean. If a disaster wipes out 90-99% of the population that “week’s worth” is considerably more. Only as long as it lasts, and in competition with other would-be looters. Planning on direct competition with others who are equally desperate and incapable of developing independent resources is pretty much a guarantee of conflict. I know the survivalist type crowd likes to imagine themselves taking on punk biker gands with guns and mantraps, but the reality is that this is a good way to waste a lot of energy that doesn’t go toward being able to survive the real threats: famine, weather, disease, and sanitation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/65 "2013-08-19T21:49:38Z")
> [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > Land mines? Where does someone get land mines? You make them. It is surprisingly easy to make all manner of effective weapons, from land mines and claymores to mortars and flame throwers with basic tools, parts from the hardware store, and some easily improvised explosives. Making such devices that don’t blow up in your face is a little harder, but well within the capability of a handy person with patience and discipline. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/66 "2013-08-19T22:05:48Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I know the survivalist type crowd likes to imagine themselves taking on punk biker gands with guns and mantraps > > Stranger I wonder how much of a link there is between 1) survalism 2) fears of nuclear war in the 50s and 60s 3) the rise in crime and the race riots/tensions of the 60s and 70s 4) the popularity of zombie movies The Wiki article starts off survivalism in the 60s ([Survivalism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism)). Wiki shows a lot of race riots in the late 50s to the 70s: [List of ethnic riots - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_riot#Civil_Rights_and_Black_Power_Movement.27s_Period:_1955_-_1977) most notably the 1965 Watts riots and the 1967 Detroit riot. George Romero’s Night of the living dead, which was the first widely successful zombie movie, came out in 1968. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/67 "2013-08-19T22:09:13Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Long term “survival” after the collapse of civilization is another bag, but the same principles still apply; stockpiling a bunch of ‘stuff’ (be it food, guns, tools, et cetera) is ultimately less useful than the basic and largely forgotten skills of how to make tools and shelter starting from only primitive elements. All the guns in the world aren’t going to help you when you are freezing to death because you don’t know how to make a stormproof shelter or prepare tinder for a fire. I plan to follow the survival techniques outlined in _Dies the Fire_. Basically, everybody I meet will be a master-something-or-other that will prove really really useful in my postapocalyptic world. Oh, and find a massive stockpile of food that I can take guilt-free. And get myself born into a family that has a house perfectly situated for the conditions of the post-apocalypse. What could go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/68 "2013-08-19T22:10:26Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > He has well over a hundred various firearms and over 100,000 rounds of ammo. Amateur. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/69 "2013-08-19T23:16:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You make them. It is surprisingly easy to make all manner of effective weapons, from land mines and claymores to mortars and flame throwers with basic tools, parts from the hardware store, and some easily improvised explosives. Making such devices that don’t blow up in your face is a little harder, but well within the capability of a handy person with patience and discipline. > > Stranger Note to self: 1. Make nice with SOAT 2. When the apocalypse come invite yourself over to his house 3. [DEL]PROFIT![/DEL] SURVIVE! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/70 "2013-08-19T23:24:56Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > A disease with a “99% fatality rate” is pure fantasy outside of the best dreams of bioweapon researchers. CAPTAIN TRIPS! (the superflu that kills off 99%-plus of humanity in Stephen King’s “The Stand”. I read it ca. 1980, when I was in high school, and I’ll admit to getting a bit nervous as the summer of 1985 approached even though I knew it was totally fiction. I’ve been asked, “If anything like that happened, where would you rather go - Vegas or Boulder?” I have always replied, “Neither. I would want to die so early in the epidemic that my name would be mentioned in the book.” p.s. The diseases that do have a fatality rate this high are relatively immobile and do indeed burn themselves out rather quickly. Not even Ebola would create a worldwide pandemic, although it’s devastating whenever and wherever it pops up. AIDS has maintained its foothold because it kills very slowly relative to this. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/71 "2013-08-19T23:26:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I live in Dallas, and the tally is 1.5 for me. The one is my wife’s former masseuse, who married some nut-case and moved to a bunker in southern Missouri, and subsequently was actually filmed on “Doomsday Preppers” and then divorced said nut-case and moved out of the bunker and (presumably) back into civilized life, but I don’t know what eventually happened to her. > > The 1/2 is a former co-worker of mine who believes in all sorts of woo and is really right-wing, loves his guns, and while not really a “prepper”, he does buy into a lot of garbage like the Amero and other garbage like that. Did he get on the show, and were they still married at the time? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/72 "2013-08-20T02:43:09Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Did he get on the show, and were they still married at the time? She, and yes she was on the show a year or two ago, and they even mentioned the divorce on the show; she went from looking like she was on a religious compound to dressing normally (for her, anyway) again. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/73 "2013-08-20T03:27:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The “stuff/resources there” consists of less than a weeks’ worth of supplies (by some estimations, the islands of Manhattan is perpetually less than 48 hours from starvation, though I imagine that survivors of some calamity could probably eke out an existance for a few more days before things really go to shit). This ignores one of the big selling points of living in Manhattan (or other large, metropolitan area) which is the immediacy with which government/rescue groups/whatever respond to issues in a huge city. I saw it multiple times when I lived in NYC. Huge disaster strikes the east coast and NYC is up and running as if nothing happened 36 hours later while Bridgeport, CT or whatever other small towns in the surrounding area were also dealt a huge blow tend to take weeks to get back up and running again. When Sandy hit they pumped all of the water out of the subways, got the power back on, and had all the gas stations functional again in less than 48 hours. The stuff that really didn’t impact anyone at all (like the Statue of Liberty) was left to be repaired on whatever schedule they felt would work for them, but the basics of keeping society up and running were fixed immediately. It would take an event that was truly catastrophic to totally shut down NYC or Boston or Chicago for more than a day or two. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/74 "2013-08-20T03:33:29Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > In other words, this is probably about as common as families whose daughters do pageants. What about Amish Mafiosos? I have a bit of food in the pantry, a few guns and plenty of ammo. I also have a place to go where my family originated that if the big cities fell they wouldn’t even notice, most likely. I just need enough to get me there and hold it once I arrive with several like-minded friends and their families. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/75 "2013-08-20T03:45:01Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > It’s a matter of Mormon theology to be prepared like that, in addition to the doomsdayers. > Not so much to ‘bug out’ but more hunkering down, I guess. Same difference. uhhhhh, not quite. We just practice [regular emergency preparedness.](http://www.lds.org/topics/emergency-preparedness) Emergency food, water, and essentials. Nothing apocalyptic. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/76 "2013-08-20T05:38:10Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > This ignores one of the big selling points of living in Manhattan (or other large, metropolitan area) which is the immediacy with which government/rescue groups/whatever respond to issues in a huge city. I saw it multiple times when I lived in NYC. Huge disaster strikes the east coast and NYC is up and running as if nothing happened 36 hours later while Bridgeport, CT or whatever other small towns in the surrounding area were also dealt a huge blow tend to take weeks to get back up and running again. Sure, and this argues against trying to make elaborate preparations for survival in urban zones. Either the municipal authorities have the plans, resources, and skills on tap to reduce such calamities quickly and effectively (Hurricane Sandy, the Northridge earthquake) in which case you are better off staying put for a few days, or the situation is totally out of control (Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans) and the only rational thing to do is make tracks and regroup where the situation is managable. In neither case would large stockpiles of supplies been of great help. This isn’t to say a “go bag” is a bad idea; although I don’t call it such, I keep a couple of bags perpetually semi-packed and ready to be filled and go on 10 minutes notice, albeit more to take advantage of infrequent breaks in my schedule to get some backpacking-away-the-fuck-from-people time. But the perversity of the universe being what it is, depending on some piece of gear to be at hand pretty much guarantees that it will be lost, broken, or stolen at the time you need it the most. If you can’t carry it with you on a daily basis, learn to improvise without it or else accept that you are chained to some weight that will slow you down and distort your choices. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/77 "2013-08-20T05:41:56Z")
We are who is going to bring this country down. But no matter who does or just a little thing like Katrina, I am prepared to the point that I will not have to fight the looters at the stores & I am prepared to defend the stuff I do have. I am a little old & out of shape to go out in the woods with a pocket knife & bic lighter and last very long. I have been around large groups of people when the real fear sets in and anyone who thinks that does not happen, even in not so bad times, will be the first fatalities. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/78 "2013-08-20T13:21:15Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > This ignores one of the big selling points of living in Manhattan (or other large, metropolitan area) which is the immediacy with which government/rescue groups/whatever respond to issues in a huge city. I saw it multiple times when I lived in NYC. Huge disaster strikes the east coast and NYC is up and running as if nothing happened 36 hours later Maybe _Manhattan_ was up and running before too long, but Sandy was a different story in outlying boroughs of the city. Of course, a major, lasting power outage is going to be felt much more by people living on upper floors of a Manhattan high-rise as opposed to someone in a single-family Queens home running a generator. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/79 "2013-08-21T21:59:37Z")
To everyone that asked. Yes, LANDMINES!! Of course they are illegal, and he makes them himself. I expect to see him in the news someday. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599/80 "2013-08-21T22:17:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > IOW, states that barely have a “civilization” to prepare for the collapse for. ah yes, it’s time for my daily reminder that NYC and southern California are the only places in this country of any importance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-how-common-is-this-outlook/666599.md?page=5)