Whatever happened to bewitched and bothered?
Yeah, when Obama was elected in 08, it was nice traveling outside the US and having people comment positively about the US.
Maybe I’ll tell people I’m from Canada if Trump somehow doesn’t go down in flames.
“Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”
-Winston Churchill (attributed)
The rise of both Trump and Sanders can be attributed to long-standing frustration on both the right and left with which how government has worked (or not) for the past 20 years in response to a dramatically changing global economic landscape. 20 years of obstructionism and…monopartisanship(?) has resulted in the current rise in extremism on both sides.
As for “blame” I place that squarely on the shoulders of the Republican Party and their mouthpiece Fox News. Really, since the first George Bush left office, they have run a calculated program of obstructionist propaganda and just plain old fashioned bullshit aimed at the least educated, least sophisticated and most intolerant segments of society.
I guess maybe I blame the Internet too. Ever since the Internet provided the ability for every idiot to form an opinion and broadcast it to the world, every one of them has. So it’s not surprising that politics seems to have gotten dumber since Clinton left office .
I’m surprised. I thought he was done for after his “my heroes don’t get caught” POW/McCain spat. Not only did he survive that but his poll numbers went up when he refused to apologize. I think it was around that time that I knew he would gain a huge following.
Hoo boy. Time to buy stock in the company that makes those red Maple Leaf backpack patches?
Expat American here: I’m impressed and disgusted at the amazing stupidity of some American voters. No longer surprised. I was surprised in 1972, surprised and disgusted in 2004, surprised and amused in 2012 (McCain/wtfPalin); just happy I don’t have to live in the USA now that millions of violent bigots, misogynists, and racists have been enabled.
Perhaps a topic for a different thread, but I think you hit it on the head with your last question. This is it. The party has chased away pretty much everyone who seems to have an interest in or ability to govern, so they were left with a bunch of ideologues who pretty much destroyed their states, tired old political scions, underqualified Senators, and completely unqualified candidates (Trump, Fiorina, Carson…) Plus Kasich ran, too.
Assuming Clinton wins this cycle, projecting forward to 2020, who can they run? They could retread a few 2016 failures (I could see Bush, Rubio, or Walker giving it another go and having a chance.) Paul Ryan might run in the Huntsman/Kasich role, but that hasn’t been too successful, and there’s a reason Speakers of the House don’t tend to move on to the presidency. Tom Cotton could jump in into the ideologue slot. Nikki Haley might be a reasonable candidate, but her best bet might be a 2024 run. We might get some miscellaneous governors or Senators with no national profile. But this year has really shown that all the bloviating about having a “deep bench” was pretty much wishful thinking.
I agree with all of this.
I see a lot of parallels with anti-vaxxers in terms of how they process information and how they respond to people who agree or disagree with their narratives.
I am also deeply disappointed as his xenophobic attitude has demonstrated to me that there is a deeply racist core of people in the american republic and I would have liked to be able to pretend that doesn’t exist.
I’m surprised. I thought he would flame out quick.
That said, the GOP base with their, “Have a beer with 'em” view of statesmanship makes this less than surprising in retrospect.
There is a segment of American society that is hostile to book learnin’. So a bellowing ignoramus is their perfect candidate.
WTF?! If I had a dollar for every “how can the Dems win back the white working class?” piece I’ve seen over the past three decades, written by either Dem politicians or Dem-leaning pundits, I’d be able to take the wife and kid to Disney on that money.
Yes to both.
The amount of frustration of Republican voters is huge.
- The lack of effectiveness of Congress’s obstructionism in thwarting Obama’s activities
- The low-electibility of the Establishment GOP candidates, for Obama and now in this campaign with Jeb, Kasich, etc.
It’s like Trump lit a match in a room full of natural gas.
Over the past couple of days, I have seen a new theme stated in a couple of places: “this is a once-every 50-to-100 year reset of the Republicans - it last happened with Goldwater.” I’ll be interested to see how much traction that assertion gets over the next few weeks.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
Trump has no chance in the general. As many Dems as he can possibly pull away will be counterbalanced by the GOPers who wouldn’t vote for him if the future depended on it. And then count the vast majority of minorities (heh, I like that) and women who will vote against him at the very least.
Primaries are one thing. There are a multitude of factors and candidates making the outcome far less certain. Trump is the dog leading the pack of clowns. But when he meets the real big dog and average people finally realize it comes down to “Is this really the person I want in the most powerful position on Earth?”, he’s gonna get pissed all over.
Not surprised one bit. I think I very well stated my opinion in a 2012 Pit thread I called
Underestimating the number of stupid assholes in America
“There is no harebrained bullshit stupid enough that fully half this country won’t get behind it.”
After GWB got RE-elected, all bets for optimism were off. America deserves Trump. I sure don’t mean that in the way his supporters do.
Maybe one of those values is not being ridiculed and talked down to, unlike a certain Democratic President who is currently in office.
Trump tells them what they want to hear. Just like Hillary tells her people what they want to hear. It’s really as simple as that. Famous example: Hitler. People are idiots and will buy whatever bullshit lies the politicians are telling them.
Every year in my state the politicians are, “Oh noes! The children! The schools need money! Just give us hundreds of millions of dollars and we’ll fix it” And the idiots are all, “I’m poor as fuck but please take more of my money and put our state in more debt” The very next year. The pols are all, “Oh noes! The children! The schools need money! Just give us hundreds of millions of dollars and we’ll fix it.” And the idiots fall for it again.
And every year I’m like, “WTF Mate! You said you were gonna fix it with the money you got last year. What the hell happened to that money?”
I would agree with Johnny Ace, except I never expected Trump to get as far as he has, so my faith in Americans’ common sense has taken a battering of late. I don’t really think Trump would win a general election, but I intend to do all I can to make sure of it.
The political class makes sure the money is well spent. Just trust them.
It’s only surprising if you ignore the voice of the voters supporting Trump and Bernie. First there was the Tea Party phenomena. Made up of people who didn’t like the way the current government was operating. You also had the Obama phenomena. Hope and Change that served to solidify opposition to the way the current government was being run. Along comes Trump and Bernie. What do they have in common? They’re both different than the politicos who are running things. Out with the old, in with the new. Somebody’s got to be better than what we have. Trump and Bernie are drawing big crowds. Trump and Bernie are bringing in new voters. That scares the power-brokers and big donators.
Many in the GOP leadership do not want a President who pays his own way.
Many in the DNC leadership aren’t helping Bernie compete against Hillary.
They would like to keep the power right where it is. Even if they lose an election.
But the voters want something better and different is better than what we have.
Many people have provided answers as too why Trump shouldn’t be President. Many people prefer to insult the voters because the voters don’t think like some posters think they should. But there are a lot of voters who are voicing their displeasure at the SSDD government and politics.
Am I surprised by Trump’s success? Or Bernie’s success? No, I’m not. The voters are not satisfied. The voters want something different. The voters want a better government.
Unfortunately, I have not been surprised.
Disappointed, frightened, and disgusted…yes.
The following apply to those who are Trump fans. We are a nation that watches reality TV and Fox News. We do not understand the basic principles upon which our country was founded (given the cultural views of the time re genders and race, and adjusting for modern times) We believe in violent solutions to many problems, and that America has been and is the best culture possible. Looks are more important than substance. We are deliberately ignorant, and willing to ignore dishonesty, bullying, and unethical behavior if the star we gaze on is bright enough. We have few obligations to others in our society if they are not like “us” We would rather fight and believe ill of folks not like “us”, whether it applies to race, religion, or politics.
However, not all of us are Trump fans, and not all of the above apply to all of us. Hopefully Mr Trump’s fans are in the minority, but our system of primaries, caucuses and elections may not allow the majority to exert its will all the time. Remember, Trump has not been getting a majority of votes…just more than anyone else
Once upon a time I was a Republican. That was back in the days of social liberalism and economic conservatism. I haven’t voted for a Republican in many years; someday i may be able to do so again.
I have been very surprised and never expected him to get this far. I suspect the people who aren’t surprised are those who have been predicting something like this every election year.
Having said that, I would be far, far more surprised were he to actually win the Presidency. Thus far he has only demonstrated that he can command the loyalty of one-third of the Mean and Stupid Party.
Surprised. That Trump could hit 40% in the GOP polls temporarily would not surprise me. But this sustained performance implies that the wheels have come off the GOP clown car.
Trump is ideologically unreliable and not especially electable. Cruz is hated by basically everyone who knows him personally. These candidates are numbers 1 and 2. I thought there were more mainliners in the GOP base. I was wrong.
More generally, outsiders who really had no business being on the debate stage have consistently polled in the 60-70% range this election cycle. That’s nuts. 20%? Sure. A commanding majority? That’s something else. Introducing the Jimmy Carter Outsider Index, 2016 Republican Primary Edition - Politics & Elections - Straight Dope Message Board
Does anyone vet these candidates? Apparently not.
Bernie’s success, if that’s what you call a strong second place finish in a one-winner game, has to do with the tremendous target on any early presidential primary frontrunner (excluding, for the most part, incumbents). It seems that, in recent presidential nominating contests, early front-runners mostly fail:
If Hillary, or any other early front-runner, expects to avoid a strong primary challenge, they are unrealistic.
As for Trump’s success, yes I am surprised. Math-focused experts like Nate Silver thought he had little chance. Quantitatively oriented experts are usually correct, and I knew they predicted Trump to be a bubble candidate who would burst. Maybe the bubble will burst. Maybe it will burst tonight with Trump never having another winning day. But the experts I read certainly did not think the bubble could last as long as it has, and I thought they were correct.
I did think that the Trump bubble would help Cruz, because, after Trump, Cruz would be seen by many as normal and reasonable. In as much as Cruz is now on an upswing, apparently, for the most past, at Rubio’s expense, this may be coming true.
As for the issue of whether I am surprised that a make-believe fascist, early front-runner or otherwise, won Super Tuesday, certainly I am. As to whether the GOP could nominate him, of course I now see it is all too possible.