# Americans living in the U.S.: what would make you take concrete action to expatriate yourself? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 16, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372 "2025-02-16T03:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/1 "2025-02-16T03:28:37Z")
Now that I am also Canadian and it’s a real possibility, **Tom\_Scud** and I are talking about it. Even had a consultation with a Canadian immigration attorney yesterday to iron out some of his problematic documentation issues. We’d be even more serious about it if it didn’t seem like the job market weren’t so dire in Canada at the moment. We live in a very blue city. We are at a point in our lives where we really can’t quite afford to retire, but age discrimination is a potential issue when job searching. We both have elderly mothers who are requiring more and more care. We aren’t at the top of the list of groups who are likely to be visible targets where we live. And yet… So far, some trigger events we have come up with are: - The Feds coming after state and local politicians, as in taking physical actions to overpower them, rest/imprison them, etc. for not going along with illegal Federal policies - Violence in the streets in a large and concerted way - State-sponsored antisemitism (I am agnostic, but of 100% Jewish heritage) - My job (immigration paralegal) literally becoming illegal, although I am at the point where I am seriously considering a career change anyway. The first Trump admin sucked, and this promises to be MUCH worse What else should we be thinking about? Maybe I have just worked on too many asylum cases, but…this is all totally uncharted territory. Right now I am trying to talk my eligible cousins into pursuing Canadian citizenship the same way I did, but so far none of them have taken me up on it, even though I provided basically everything they would need except their own birth certificates and their mother’s (my aunt’s) birth certificate. And of course, my aunt’s point was “why do you want to move to Canada if it’s just going to become the 51st state anyway?” She wasn’t entirely joking. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/2 "2025-02-16T03:53:29Z")
I guess I might consider it if I no longer had a job (I work at a small public university in a very red state, and periodically the state legislature threatens to shut us down). I don’t have any means of getting foreign citizenship, other than perhaps marrying a very-long-ago boyfriend (which I don’t especially want to do), but I think if I got a TEFL certificate I would have no problem getting employment somewhere outside of the US. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/3 "2025-02-16T04:18:42Z")
Portugal and Malta top my list. Malta has a very large percentage of English speakers so that would be easier. A very mild climate is a big plus. Portugal, I would be looking for one the English ex-Pat areas. I understand it is one of the cheaper stable places for Americans to migrate to. Canada is not a place I would want to retire to, a bit too cold for me. ---
**Author:** ![Sooner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sooner/32/7875_2.png) [@Sooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sooner)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/4 "2025-02-16T04:20:14Z")
Portable health care. As a retired local government employee, I have lifetime coverage in network. I can adapt to everything else. Recently returned from Funchal, it was wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/5 "2025-02-16T09:39:35Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Malta has a very large percentage of English speakers so that would be easier. My wife and I were thinking on similar lines, but then we went and spent time there. Yes, English is widely spoken, but culturally it feels more like a blend of Italy and North Africa, with the attendant disarray and economic mismanagement and corruption. Plus a huge down side: you’re on an island. Any time you want to do any kind of traveling, step one is Get Off the Island. For that reason, our retirement will be somewhere on the continent, where we can take advantage of the rail network. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/6 "2025-02-16T09:49:37Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Portugal and Malta top my list. My ex-BiL is still friends with my brother and they talk to each other somewhat frequently. He said he would leave the US if Trump won and, so he is. Ex-BiL is very smart (and very well-off financially). He is the kind of guy who researches things from all aspects he can think of (taxes, health care, ease of emigrating/immigrating, how friendly locals will be…you name it). He settled on Portugal. It might not be for everyone but he deemed it the best choice for him for whatever that is worth. My immediate family is discussing moving. It’s a big thing to do though and not cheap and a huge hassle so I am not sure what will tip us over into moving. Personally, I am fine with the cold so Canada would probably top my list. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/7 "2025-02-16T12:37:29Z")
My question is not “where would you like to retire?” I have lots of ideas about that. I would not even be considering retiring if it didn’t open up visa options for me in countries where I might feel safer. I am not discussing Canada because of the weather; I’m discussing it because it’s somewhere where I have the legal right to move, right now, with documentation that I already have - and to apply for permanent residence for my husband. I definitely can’t afford to retire in Canada, but I am legally allowed to work there so I wouldn’t have to. (I would need to find a job, though, preferably not doing what I am doing now - U.S. immigration law.) If I were going to retire somewhere cheaper to live than Canada? All else being equal, probably somewhere in northern Spain. And we can qualify for non-employment visas there, but only if we sell the house, which I don’t want to do just yet. Currently debating at what point it would make sense to sell the house. On one hand, we have a crazy low interest rate, are paying down over $1300/month in principal, and could probably rent it out for just about what the mortgage payment is. On the other, if we decide to live outside the U.S., it would be nice to have the equity to buy a place where we are living. But right now I am not ruling out the idea that we might want to move back here at some point, and in the past couple of years we have put a lot of cash into improvements. I love my new kitchen! The house will be paid off right about when I hit my full retirement age. Even If we decided not to move back, renting it out would give us some nice cash flow. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/8 "2025-02-16T15:02:58Z")
I’m planning on visiting Ireland in the early Autumn, partly as a tourist but partly to see how I’d feel living there. I have no legal right to permanently reside there, but even if I lived there a few months at a time that would be helpful, spiritually. And a cursory look at the possibility of a residency visa indicates it might be possible (certain income and savings requirements). Genealogically my connection is thin: a great-grandfather was born in Belfast, when it was Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/9 "2025-02-16T15:15:29Z")
The question is really not “where would you like to retire?” but “what countries would want to take you, given your skill set and financial resources?” It’d be tougher than most would-be expatriates imagine. We were hearing this nonsense as far back as Reagan. Relatively few have turned tail and run, in part because of the realization that things aren’t so swell elsewhere in the world, not to mention the contempt and xenophobia Americans face in other countries due to long-standing resentments and jealousies. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/10 "2025-02-16T15:23:17Z")
Me, or my wife, would have to face a direct threat to our lives or liberty. I love where I live and would be heart broken to leave. My wife has both a UK and EU (Ireland) passport so we have the luxury of making a quick escape if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/11 "2025-02-16T15:28:06Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Me, or my wife, would have to face a direct threat to our lives or liberty. I love where I live and would be heart broken to leave. Seconded. Even if the USA turned overtly fascist (and we’re nowhere near that yet), what would my leaving do to change that? An ignorable protest vote? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/12 "2025-02-16T15:31:38Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Even if the USA turned overtly fascist (and we’re nowhere near that yet), what would my leaving do to change that? I’m not sure it’s about that. Sometimes, it’s about saving yourself and your immediate family – particularly when what you see ‘at home’ is overwhelming and inevitable. A fighter pilot ejecting isn’t really trying to save the aircraft 😉 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/13 "2025-02-16T15:38:33Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Even if the USA turned overtly fascist (and we’re nowhere near that yet), what would my leaving do to change that? An ignorable protest vote? No, of course not. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Sometimes, it’s about saving yourself and your immediate family – particularly when what you see ‘at home’ is overwhelming and inevitable. What he said so well. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/14 "2025-02-16T15:53:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The question is really not “where would you like to retire?” but “what countries would want to take you, given your skill set and financial resources?” > > It’d be tougher than most would-be expatriates imagine. That’s exactly right. As far as I can tell my chances of moving anywhere legally are just about zero. The chance of me becoming a homeless refugee is also zero. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/15 "2025-02-16T16:03:20Z")
I have no idea about your story, but you might be surprised. Because of gender discrimination baked into Canada’s citizenship laws, my father didn’t gain the right to his own Canada-born mother’s citizenship until he was 75 years old. And through a long series of events aimed at fixing that historical discrimination, I became Canadian only a couple of weeks ago. Lots of Americans have claims to another country’s citizenship by ancestry that they haven’t pursued. Some are easier to claim than others, of course. One of my best friends is finally pursuing one right now (Croatia). He’s been waiting 2 years because of processing backlogs. I am 99.9% sure he will get it eventually (his mother was born there), but the reason the backlog is so long is that current events all around the world are making people finally get around to it. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/16 "2025-02-16T16:15:23Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > the contempt and xenophobia Americans face in other countries due to long-standing resentments and jealousies This jumped out at me (as a longtime expat). Could you be more specific? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/17 "2025-02-16T16:22:55Z")
Seems to be [a lot of love](https://yucatanmagazine.com/mexicos-new-wave-of-expats-need-to-face-the-truth/) for American expatriates in Mexico, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/18 "2025-02-16T16:27:47Z")
I don’t think I’ll leave. Given current conditions I’ll despair and hunker down and hope we make it to the other side. If we go full blown Third Riech, I’ll probably organize and/or join the active resistance and start blowing things up. I do have a co-worker with a trans kid who’s moving to the Netherlands next month. I get that. If my kids want to leave, I’ll help them. I’ll stay and fight. ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/19 "2025-02-16T16:32:58Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t think I’ll leave. Given current conditions I’ll despair and hunker down and hope we make it to the other side. If we go full blown Third Riech, I’ll probably organize and/or join the active resistance and start blowing things up. > > I do have a co-worker with a trans kid who’s moving to the Netherlands next month. I get that. If my kids want to leave, I’ll help them. > I’ll stay and fight. My feelings exactly. I’ll do what I can when the time comes. ---
**Author:** ![LouMa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/louma/32/19472_2.png) [@LouMa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouMa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372/20 "2025-02-16T16:53:21Z")
The immigration of Americans into Portugal has led to a housing crisis for Portuguese native people since Americans come in increasing numbers and pay high prices for their housing which leaves natives with little or no choices anymore. The Portuguese Government is fixing stricter rules now. Health care is only accessible with private payment, you should know the language etc. American immigrants are quite disliked by the native population. You might find yourself in the shoes of immigrants to America. Never mind, just for your information. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-living-in-the-u-s-what-would-make-you-take-concrete-action-to-expatriate-yourself/1014372.md?page=2)