# Americans: so, you walk into a store and spot that everyone is armed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856 "2014-08-05T11:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/101 "2014-08-05T15:58:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because the government makes them pass safety and operational testing before they can legally drive. And yet they’re _still_ absolute strangers, can _still_ kill you, and you _still_ trust them every time you take the crosswalk. And let’s face it, driver standards in the US are laughable. The equivalent for guns would be a test that said “Where’s the trigger? Where’s does the bullet come out? Can you recognize a “gun free zone” sign?” and a test where you shot a gun and if you pointed it vaguely downrange, you pass. I’m an advocate for gun safety. So is every gun rights supporter I know. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/102 "2014-08-05T16:00:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Say it’s a head shop in South Philly. That isn’t somewhere I’d be to begin with. But suppose you said a bar. If things seemed calm and the firearms stayed safely in holsters I would be ok with it. But I know guns and don’t want to be around a bunch of careless people handling them. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/103 "2014-08-05T16:07:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I hear this so often, people talking about using a gun to protect themselves, but I’ve never once heard anyone explain how this is supposed to work. At what point in a situation do you draw a gun, and at what point do you pull the trigger? If you do either of those before the other guy does, then you’re not defending yourself; you’re the one who needs to be defended against. And if you wait until after the other guy does it, then you’re still not defending yourself; you’re at best avenging yourself. This is really silly. Ask yourself why police, secret service and other security personnel carry guns. If you were in fear for your life, and you hired a security detail, and they showed up with nothing but leather jackets and heavy boots, would you feel safe? If the cops came to protect you from an ex who made threats on your life, would you be happy if they showed up with radios and handcuffs only? ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/104 "2014-08-05T16:07:42Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > I’m guessing an awful lot of you didn’t grow up in the hood. It wouldn’t raise any eyebrows with me, unless the establishment is some posh suburb with very little expectation of robbery attempts. Where I grew up, armed shopkeepers were not particularly unusual. Yes, we should all strive to turn every piece of America into the hood. The soft suburbanites and their insulated, blasé attitude towards armed shopkeepers is making this country soft, weak, and pathetic. Why shop at your gunless, neighborhood Costco when you can shop at a bodega, slipping cash to a guy who’s got one hand on a shotgun, eyeing the shifty teenagers by the funions, making sure they aren’t shoplifting? > [@DrCube](#): > > No problem. In fact, I’d be more likely to patronize such an establishment. > > If they had a lot of fire extinguishers around, would you say to yourself “This place is a fire hazard, they must be expected to use those extinguishers frequently and I don’t trust non-firefighters to use them correctly” and leave? Why then if the establishment prepares for the equally unlikely event of an attack does it seem unsafe? I would absolutely bat an eye if everyone at the Best Buy had a fire extinguisher on their belt loop. Or a first aid kit. Or bear mace. Or rattlesnake anti-venom. I certainly would not feel safer. > [@bump](#): > > FYI, some of the responses are kind of hyperbolic; they’re just guns. Would you feel any different if everyone had a machete or 12" Bowie knife strapped to their hip? Or grenades? Or a chainsaw? Or the cow-gun from No Country for Old Men? It’s COMPANY POLICY to have their workers armed and dangerous. The risk of being robbed at gunpoint has outweighed the risk of arming their employees. That is crossing the tipping point. That means the availability of guns and the brazeness of criminals has shifted from it being improbable to probable. That is a terrifying hypothetical and I cannot for the life of me see how people are understating the seriousness and even embracing this scenario. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/105 "2014-08-05T16:11:01Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The fact of the matter is, other people can kill you. They simply can, and it is foolish to go about our lives pretending otherwise. You trust that most people are doing their best to prevent death and destruction, and do your best to prepare for the eventual accident or rare individual with opposite intentions. The fact of the matter is that guns make it so much easier to kill people than just about any other method. It is foolish to go about our lives pretending otherwise. You can trust that law abiding gun-toting citizens will do their best to prevent death and destruction, but really the best way to prevent an encounter with guns is to get rid of them wholesale for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/106 "2014-08-05T16:12:09Z")
Oh, **iiandyiiii** , you must have a lot of safer drivers in VA than we do in any of the many other places I have lived. Look at it this way, folks, if all these people who are going to leave and never come back really do so, the rest of us are gonna get waited on a lot sooner. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/107 "2014-08-05T16:12:27Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I would absolutely bat an eye if everyone at the Best Buy had a fire extinguisher on their belt loop. Or a first aid kit. Or bear mace. Or rattlesnake anti-venom. I certainly would not feel safer. So if they kept the guns in glass (or let’s be realistic, drawers or cabinets) in various places all over the store in case of emergency, that’d be okay? Seriously, you have a problem with _first aid kits_?? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/108 "2014-08-05T16:12:45Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > That isn’t somewhere I’d be to begin with. But suppose you said a bar. If things seemed calm and the firearms stayed safely in holsters I would be ok with it. But I know guns and don’t want to be around a bunch of careless people handling them. Suppose I did say a bar. And suppose in this calm and otherwise relaxed bar one drunken idiot makes a pass at the girlfriend of another drunken idiot. And suppose that instead of settling it like men by beating the hell out of one another, they decide to settle it like cowboys and draw their guns to see if either can shoot the other dead. Suppose you’re in the bar and know nothing about what’s about to happen because you had to go to the can to take a piss and are just coming out in time to catch the stray bullet. All while your gun is safely in its holster because you’re one of the responsible gun owners. Not one of those other idiots. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/109 "2014-08-05T16:15:03Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > You can trust that law abiding gun-toting citizens will do their best to prevent death and destruction, but really the best way to prevent an encounter with guns is to get rid of them wholesale for everybody. Absolutely. Got a time machine, or magic wand? Otherwise, we have to deal with the reality we live in (which includes guns) rather than the imaginary gun free utopia we’d prefer. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/110 "2014-08-05T16:16:24Z")
I’d walk in, scream “he’s got a gun” and throw myself on the floor. Just to see what happened If it was, for instance, a print shop with just a few employees and they were friendly, I wouldn’t really care. If it was a big place with a big staff it would be unsettling. Like they were all in a cult. If I worked in a liquor store or a convienence store, I’d want to be tricked out like Neo going in to the federal building. Some places are popular targets for armed robbers. But going into a non-cash business like a real estate office and seeing everyone carrying a gun, I’d assume they were militia-type fruitcakes and therefore unstable. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/111 "2014-08-05T16:17:21Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > So if they kept the guns in glass (or let’s be realistic, drawers or cabinets) in various places all over the store in case of emergency, that’d be okay? Seriously, you have a problem with _first aid kits_?? Keeping the gun behind glass would be much preferred to keeping it on their persons. I don’t have a problem with first aid kits necessarily but I would be asking what the impetus was for Corporate to mandate all of the employees be carrying it. In this case, it’s not the kits themselves I have a problem but the potential danger that warranted the response. Handguns on the other hand speaks for itself. As I (and others) have said, the only reason you carry a gun is so you can injure/kill someone. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/112 "2014-08-05T16:19:27Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > It’s COMPANY POLICY to have their workers armed and dangerous. The risk of being robbed at gunpoint has outweighed the risk of arming their employees. That is crossing the tipping point. That means the availability of guns and the brazeness of criminals has shifted from it being improbable to probable. That is a terrifying hypothetical and I cannot for the life of me see how people are understating the seriousness and even embracing this scenario. Assuming I wasn’t just passing through, I’d more than likely live in the community and be armed myself, if things had come to that pass. I think it’s far more likely that some crackpot right-wing owner would do just what the OP suggests and incentivize the open carry of guns in his business. In all likelihood, it would be somewhere relatively crime free like a small town, or a wealthy suburb. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/113 "2014-08-05T16:20:14Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > [snip]Handguns on the other hand speaks for itself. As I (and others) have said, the only reason you carry a gun is so you can injure/kill someone. You said it, but it’s not true. I have never carried a gun in order to injure or kill someone. I carry a gun to discourage others from injuring or killing me. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/114 "2014-08-05T16:21:29Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > In this case, it’s not the kits themselves I have a problem but the potential danger that warranted the response. . This is the disconnect. Preparing for even rare events does not make one paranoid, and does not imply a lack of safety. In fact, it implies the opposite. Preparation is key to preventing and mitigating disasters, no matter how rare. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/115 "2014-08-05T16:24:56Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The fact of the matter is, other people can kill you. They simply can, and it is foolish to go about our lives pretending otherwise. You trust that most people are doing their best to prevent death and destruction, and do your best to prepare for the eventual accident or rare individual with opposite intentions. Couldn’t agree with you more. My personal best to prevent death and destruction, and to prepare for eventual etc. is to not hang out where people are armed. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/116 "2014-08-05T16:26:08Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > This is the disconnect. Preparing for even rare events does not make one paranoid, and does not imply a lack of safety. In fact, it implies the opposite. Preparation is key to preventing and mitigating disasters, no matter how rare. Gas mask on tight? Plastic gloves got your hands sealed o.k.? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/117 "2014-08-05T16:27:41Z")
For all those using “public roads and spaces” as a credible risk to life and limb of every day life… fine, we all accept that risk. We are all aware that fires break out and bad drivers on cell phones kill pedestrians at cross walks, etc. It’s really quite silly to point to every day risks we all assume by simply living life in the world we all inhabit. What with cars and planes and falling pianos looking to kill you at every turn. How does it follow, that increasing the presence of guns in this mix makes for a more safe environment in which to live? It doesn’t. It just doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/118 "2014-08-05T16:29:40Z")
Well, statistics seem to show that passing laws to limit the number of guns does not make the environment more safe either. Thus, apparently, having fewer guns does not make you safer. So maybe it’s not so silly to suggest that life is a fairly risky proposition. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/119 "2014-08-05T16:30:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Gas mask on tight? Plastic gloves got your hands sealed o.k.? That’s a personal choice I choose not to make. However, I wouldn’t be afraid of someone carrying a gas mask. If I saw someone _wearing_ one I would be afraid, for the same reason I would be scared of someone _firing a gun_ in my vicinity. That means there is an attack in progress. Simply carrying a firearm or protective mask means no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/120 "2014-08-05T16:32:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Gas mask on tight? Plastic gloves got your hands sealed o.k.? You really don’t get it. See, if you have a gun, you kill the bastards BEFORE they release the deadly gas attack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856.md?page=7)