# Americans: so, you walk into a store and spot that everyone is armed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856 "2014-08-05T11:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/121 "2014-08-05T16:35:50Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > And yet they’re _still_ absolute strangers, can _still_ kill you, and you _still_ trust them every time you take the crosswalk. > > And let’s face it, driver standards in the US are laughable. Not exactly. Traffic deaths (proportionally speaking) in the US are [far, far lower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate) than in countries without good government-run traffic safety programs and driver licensing. > [@](#): > > The equivalent for guns would be a test that said “Where’s the trigger? Where’s does the bullet come out? Can you recognize a “gun free zone” sign?” and a test where you shot a gun and if you pointed it vaguely downrange, you pass. I don’t think so. I think it would be more like presenting someone with a loaded gun at a firing range, with an instructor present, and grading them based on how they handle the gun. And I bet lots of folks would fail the first time, when they inadvertently pointed the gun away from downrange, or failed to ensure the range was clear, or failed to verify the status of the gun, etc. You know, like a driver’s test (which lots of people fail the first time). > [@](#): > > I’m an advocate for gun safety. So is every gun rights supporter I know. As am I. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/122 "2014-08-05T16:41:24Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > You said it, but it’s not true. I have never carried a gun in order to injure or kill someone. I carry a gun to discourage others from injuring or killing me. And how exactly does your gun discourage people? Does it have anything to do with its intrinsic injuring and killing properties? Or do you have the “good” kind of gun that only prevents injuries and death without any of the negative effects of causing injury and death? Well golly, why don’t we just only sell the “discouraging” guns and ban the “destructive” ones? Brilliant! > [@DrCube](#): > > Absolutely. Got a time machine, or magic wand? Otherwise, we have to deal with the reality we live in (which includes guns) rather than the imaginary gun free utopia we’d prefer. Are you actually interested in working towards that utopia or are you committed to descent towards the total opposite of that utopia in the name of freedom and the 2nd amendment? > [@DrCube](#): > > This is the disconnect. Preparing for even rare events does not make one paranoid, and does not imply a lack of safety. In fact, it implies the opposite. Preparation is key to preventing and mitigating disasters, no matter how rare. I agree that preparation is a good thing. I disagree that you’ve decided to take this vast generalization to justify your specific example of carrying guns. If every single barista, stockboy, and cashier was geared up to prep for some sort of post-apocalyptic nightmare it would be a _bad_ thing. The barista needs to wear an apron so he/she can be prepared against coffee spills. The stockboy needs to be armed with a mop so he/she can mop up that spill. The cashier needs to have access to nickels so he/she can give you proper change. Your generalization has the barista aproned up, mopped up, changed up, gunned up, bear maced up, first aid kitted up, fire extinguished up, etc. because… hey… preparedness = goodness. … which is either a disingenuous argument or a stupid one. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/123 "2014-08-05T16:42:51Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Inapt comparison. > A gun is designed to maim or kill people. It is a weapon, which should require the user to be held to a high proficiency standard that can take years to achieve. There is a conscious, and not too well thought out, decision to carry a deadly weapon in a place of business. This was my earlier point. I’ve owned guns all my life. I spent a career in the military, with both combat and peacetime experience, routinely handling and firing all manner of weapons, and even worked as a range coach. I worked as a volunteer police officer for several years during that time, going through modified weapons training with regular officers and being exposed to dicey situations where anything could have happened. Given all that, I MIGHT react properly and calmly in a confrontation situation. Armchair tough guys and internet commandos, despite their bravado, are more likely than not going to panic, because, to paraphrase Bruce Lee, “paper targets don’t shoot back”. A store clerk with a gun is dangerous to everybody around him. A store full of such people is a recipe for mayhem. It’s a rare person who can control fear and overcome adrenaline rush in bad situations. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/124 "2014-08-05T16:46:20Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Well, statistics seem to show that passing laws to limit the number of guns does not make the environment more safe either. Thus, apparently, having fewer guns does not make you safer. So maybe it’s not so silly to suggest that life is a fairly risky proposition. I’m not talking about laws for limiting guns. (Though that would be nice if it worked.) Have all the guns you want in your closet. Just don’t bring them into public spaces. Leave them at home with your paranoia. Life is a risky proposition. For sure. What I’m talking about is risk management. Just like the type of risk management people practice by avoiding walking into sketchy situations. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/125 "2014-08-05T16:47:50Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > This was my earlier point. I’ve owned guns all my life. I spent a career in the military, with both combat and peacetime experience, routinely handling and firing all manner of weapons, and even worked as a range coach. I worked as a volunteer police officer for several years during that time, going through modified weapons training with regular officers and being exposed to dicey situations where anything could have happened. > > Given all that, I MIGHT react properly and calmly in a confrontation situation. Armchair tough guys and internet commandos, despite their bravado, are more likely than not going to panic, because, to paraphrase Bruce Lee, “paper targets don’t shoot back”. A store clerk with a gun is dangerous to everybody around him. A store full of such people is a recipe for mayhem. It’s a rare person who can control fear and overcome adrenaline rush in bad situations. Thank you for clearly communicating what I could not. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/126 "2014-08-05T16:49:33Z")
Here in RI, I would leave and immediately call the cops. There is no open carry without a permit from the Attorney General, and I have never seen anyone not in law enforcement open carry around here. So I would assume some weird shit was afoot, and let the proper authorities take care of it. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/127 "2014-08-05T16:54:21Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > This was my earlier point. I’ve owned guns all my life. I spent a career in the military, with both combat and peacetime experience, routinely handling and firing all manner of weapons, and even worked as a range coach. I worked as a volunteer police officer for several years during that time, going through modified weapons training with regular officers and being exposed to dicey situations where anything could have happened. > > Given all that, I MIGHT react properly and calmly in a confrontation situation. Armchair tough guys and internet commandos, despite their bravado, are more likely than not going to panic, because, to paraphrase Bruce Lee, “paper targets don’t shoot back”. A store clerk with a gun is dangerous to everybody around him. A store full of such people is a recipe for mayhem. It’s a rare person who can control fear and overcome adrenaline rush in bad situations. Yeah, that’s what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/128 "2014-08-05T16:55:45Z")
I would leave and never come back. I grew up around guns and shooters. One thing I learned: most people are careless and make bad decisions with guns, especially when the adrenaline is pumping. Even the highly-trained people. And I doubt that store clerks are going to be particularly highly trained. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/129 "2014-08-05T16:57:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I have a car with passive and active restraints designed to minimize injury. Should I start wearing a bullet proof vest when out in public? Not sure if I can. My shirts and suits are all slim fitted. I know stealth bragging when I see it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/130 "2014-08-05T17:04:27Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I know stealth bragging when I see it. Well, they _are_ nice fuckin’ suits. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/131 "2014-08-05T17:05:11Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > [It happens.](http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/7522736-418/homeless-man-killed-by-fire-extinguisher-thrown-from-roof.html#.U-D7l6Ne_1E) > > [More than once.](http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/25790062/wesson-man-killed-by-exploding-fire-extinguisher) > > [Worldwide.](http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2001/03/05/national/exploding-fire-extinguisher-kills-man/) > > [Even in peace loving Canadia.](http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/09/03/18639001.html) > > 😃 Hmmm, so what I seem to be reading there is that when fire extinguishers behave like guns, they kill people. :dubious: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/132 "2014-08-05T17:05:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Imagine that one day you walk into a random store. It might be a Walmart or a bookshop or a MacDonalds or a coffee shop or an estate agent (realtor), but not a gun store. At first, everything seems normal, but after a bit, you notice that all the staff are discreetly armed. Not just some, but all those legally allowed. There are other customers, conducting business as normal. > > What are your feelings? What are your actions? My feelings would be, “Uh oh, did something happen that I didn’t hear about? Was there an armed robbery in the neighborhood? Did someone shoot up some other Walmart?” In other words, I’d think it was in response to some incident, and I would reserve further judgment until I learned what it was in response to. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/133 "2014-08-05T17:13:40Z")
I have been is small retail establishments, like Pawn shops where the employees were armed. No biggie. Jewelry stores, check cashers, liquor stores, etc. And, most of the posters here have been in many such establishments, and nothing happened. You just didn’t notice/know. Generally only in gun stores do the employees carry their guns mostly openly. So next time you go into a Pawn shop, etc- that employee is almost certainly armed. (YMMV, state by state, of course) ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/134 "2014-08-05T17:14:04Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Suppose I did say a bar. And suppose in this calm and otherwise relaxed bar one drunken idiot makes a pass at the girlfriend of another drunken idiot. And suppose that instead of settling it like men by beating the hell out of one another, they decide to settle it like cowboys and draw their guns to see if either can shoot the other dead. Suppose you’re in the bar and know nothing about what’s about to happen because you had to go to the can to take a piss and are just coming out in time to catch the stray bullet. All while your gun is safely in its holster because you’re one of the responsible gun owners. Not one of those other idiots. I guess I’m missing the question. 😕 Yes, if that happened and I got shot I would leave. 😛 AFAIK it’s already legal to carry guns in bars here in Virginia and I haven’t heard of any incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/135 "2014-08-05T17:16:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I hear this so often, people talking about using a gun to protect themselves, but I’ve never once heard anyone explain how this is supposed to work. At what point in a situation do you draw a gun, and at what point do you pull the trigger? If you do either of those before the other guy does, then you’re not defending yourself; you’re the one who needs to be defended against. And if you wait until after the other guy does it, then you’re still not defending yourself; you’re at best avenging yourself. > > You know what really defends against guns? The absence of guns. I’m not at all worried about a crook coming into my store, pointing his index finger at me, and saying “bang”. To answer your first question, the point at which you pull out your gun is when the crook points a gun at you. In all likelihood he ‘doesn’t want any trouble’. He just wants to rob you and has no intention of shooting. Pulling out your gun and shooting him will put an end to that. Also, in the eyes of the law it ensures that you were acting in self defense. To reply to your second question, sure, no guns would be great, but how do you propose we get there? How are you going to get the bad guys to promise to start robbing stores without them? One of my far right wing friends posted some picture on facebook the other day that I felt dirty for agreeing with (in my head), mostly just because it made sense. Something along the lines of ‘taking guns away from good guys won’t stop the bad guys from from shooting us’. _That’s_ what I don’t get. Sure, all the ‘good guys’ are all to happy to say ‘let’s all give up our guns’, but A)how many of them have guns to give up and B)why do they think all the bad guys are going to give up theirs? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/136 "2014-08-05T17:21:36Z")
I’d ask the proprietor who their premises liability carrier was, as I’d think it is really unusual, and I’d like the name to give to other businesses that would otherwise allow their licensed employees to carry. Fwiw, one need not be openly carrying a handgun in order for someone to be able to tell that they’re carrying. Fanny packs and photographer’s vests are gimmies, but pay attention to what people clip on their belts sometime. No, the OP’s situation wouldn’t bother me at all, absent some horseplay. I was concerned about a bartender here, openly carrying, not because I was worried the gun was going to hurt anyone, but because I didn’t want the bartender lit up for open carry in a 51% establishment. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/137 "2014-08-05T17:34:13Z")
Open carry sends a message. The message it sends me is not one that I welcome, so I would tend to avoid a place where open carry was prevalent. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/138 "2014-08-05T17:34:52Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I’d ask the proprietor who their premises liability carrier was Why? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/139 "2014-08-05T17:36:16Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Assuming I wasn’t just passing through, I’d more than likely live in the community and be armed myself, if things had come to that pass. > > I think it’s far more likely that some crackpot right-wing owner would do just what the OP suggests and incentivize the open carry of guns in his business. In all likelihood, it would be somewhere relatively crime free like a small town, or a wealthy suburb. And would end up without enough steady customers to support his business model. The free market in action. Free to run a business the way you see fit and free to see your business model fail. I’d encourage all business owning gun owners to try this out for themselves if they really want to practice democracy. Maybe some will be successful and gun totters will have a place to go and eat their happy meals with their kids in safety. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/140 "2014-08-05T17:41:15Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > This is the disconnect. Preparing for even rare events does not make one paranoid, and does not imply a lack of safety. In fact, it implies the opposite. Preparation is key to preventing and mitigating disasters, no matter how rare. Again, agreed. Some people prepare by hanging out where good guys with guns can shoot the bad guys. I prepare by not hanging out where good guys with guns can shoot me by mistake, whether by accidental discharge or poor aim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856.md?page=8)