# Americans: so, you walk into a store and spot that everyone is armed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856 "2014-08-05T11:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/141 "2014-08-05T17:48:22Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Why? Because the vast majority of them are not going to be ok with employees being allowed to carry weapons. Presumably, the owner has found one that does (or self-insures). I’d want the name so I could recommend them to any business owner that would otherwise be ok with licensed employees carrying on company property, but can’t because their umbrella carrier would have a fit. My guess is that the proprietor self-insures. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/142 "2014-08-05T17:50:48Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Are you actually interested in working towards that utopia or are you committed to descent towards the total opposite of that utopia in the name of freedom and the 2nd amendment? No. For the same reason, I’m not interested in working towards a utopian world where no one dissents or expresses controversial beliefs, no matter how much safer it would be. There is no path to that utopia that does not involve tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/143 "2014-08-05T18:02:57Z")
I would turn around and leave the store and never come back. The most dangerous place is one where there are lots of guns and idiots who think they know how to use it ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/144 "2014-08-05T18:09:27Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would turn around and leave the store and never come back. The most dangerous place is one where there are lots of guns and idiots who think they know how to use it So, the fact that you have been in many such stores but just didn’t know they were carrying is OK, and not scary?😕 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/145 "2014-08-05T18:13:33Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > AFAIK it’s already legal to carry guns in bars here in Virginia and I haven’t heard of any incidents. Legal, sure. But is it commonly accepted practice by most bars and restaurants? I’m asking. I honestly don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/146 "2014-08-05T18:14:31Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And would end up without enough steady customers to support his business model. The free market in action. Free to run a business the way you see fit and free to see your business model fail. I’d encourage all business owning gun owners to try this out for themselves if they really want to practice democracy. Maybe some will be successful and gun totters will have a place to go and eat their happy meals with their kids in safety. I don’t doubt it. I just was making the point that if it was to happen in say… the DFW area, it would be some relatively crime free all-white hick town barely on the edges of the area, like Prosper, Saginaw or Royce City if it was intended as a real thing, and somewhere bigger and more populated like Plano, Keller, Frisco or Rockwall if intended as a publicity stunt. I don’t see it happening in Dallas or Ft. Worth proper- they’re more liberal than the suburbs. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/147 "2014-08-05T18:25:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, the fact that you have been in many such stores but just didn’t know they were carrying is OK, and not scary?😕 No. If I swam in shark infested waters but didn’t know it and wasn’t attacked, would I be more or less foolish to return after having learned it’s a dangerous spot for swimming? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/148 "2014-08-05T18:30:49Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Because the vast majority of them are not going to be ok with employees being allowed to carry weapons. Presumably, the owner has found one that does (or self-insures). I’d want the name so I could recommend them to any business owner that would otherwise be ok with licensed employees carrying on company property, but can’t because their umbrella carrier would have a fit. > > My guess is that the proprietor self-insures. [Like Brink’s.](http://edg1.precisionir.com/irwebsites/brinks/Brinks07.pdf) They have and require a lot of employees to carry firearms but have to self insure. I wonder if they allow people to come to the company picnic with there firearms? To the company headquarters? ---
**Author:** ![Obnoxious\_Hood\_Ornament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3be4f8/32.png) [@Obnoxious\_Hood\_Ornament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obnoxious_Hood_Ornament)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/149 "2014-08-05T18:43:56Z")
Does it bother me when I walk into an establishment and see a government agent carrying a piece? Nope, although I have no serious expectation that the government agent is less likely to pull the piece on me. They’re more likely to get away with it than a civvie 😃 No, what I’m actually thinking is: “Someone in this room knows where to score cheap ammo.” ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/150 "2014-08-05T18:46:53Z")
I don’t understand these open carry activist at all!! If they feel so unsafe why are they living in the ghetto? And many places like Miami or LA can put your self more at risk open carrying!!Your don’t dare open carry in hood.The blood or Crip or ms 13 gang would take this has a insult. Just like you don’t wear muscle shirt ,do-rag and tattoos in hood. You are asking for trouble. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/151 "2014-08-05T18:48:53Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Imagine that one day you walk into a random store. It might be a Walmart or a bookshop or a MacDonalds or a coffee shop or an estate agent (realtor), but not a gun store. At first, everything seems normal, but after a bit, you notice that all the staff are discreetly armed. Not just some, but all those legally allowed. There are other customers, conducting business as normal. > > What are your feelings? What are your actions? > > If you inquire: > > The staff get a small bonus for being armed and paid-for range time. I admit that Austin is different from much of Texas, but I’ve NEVER been in a store or restaurant where civilians were openly carrying guns. I’d find the whole thing extremely strange. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/152 "2014-08-05T19:07:28Z")
IMO, the safest place to be if I was concerned with idiots who had guns is at a gun show. I know for a fact that not having a gun did not keep my daughter alive nor one of my sisters from being rapped. I know for a fact that having gun did stop the crazy guy who kicked in the front door of our house, full of 7 kids & two parents at dinner time, in one of the really nice parts of Tulsa, OK. I personally have used guns to stop stupid, bad, idiots in civilian situations in three ‘no question it was going sideways real fast’ situations. I think the OP was very unclear as to if he was describing open carry or concealed carry, I thought it was concealed, if you thought it was open carry, I’m not a fan of that in most cases because people are not used to it. ( rifles in Target etc. ) (( Lock the rifle in the trunk, garb your concealed carry weapon and go about your business without making yourself the target for the bad guy lurking within. Much rather he shoot someone else. )) If it was meant to be seen but not in an ‘in your face’ kind of way, I would be curious as to why. It would not make me uncomfortable unless the owner appeared to be an idiot IMO, not your opinion. I wonder if you all went into a nice restaurant and could see that 2 of 4 people at the next table wearing suits and with what appeared to be their wives and you could, for some reason, make out that they were carrying concealed, legally in your state we will assume. Would this cause you to get up & leave and never go back? Or would you ask to be allowed to go in and check for any concealed carry people before you would be able to eat in that place again? Since many places like quick stop fuel places do get robbed at gun point, you must sweat gallons as you fill your car and never go in to buy a drink because the odds are that their is a weapon under the counter reachable by the minimum wage clerk. Do you feel that these business should have to post signs that they are armed or not to make you willing to chance going into them? I’m really curious. Just how strong is your belief and how do you deal with the reality of life around you? Aside: I am really glad that all LEO’s are so well trained and do not abuse their use of weapons and can be so ‘there’ for me in any emergency that involves a bad guy, wild animal, one of my cows that goes nuts, Ruby’s cafeterias, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/153 "2014-08-05T19:14:24Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Because the vast majority of them are not going to be ok with employees being allowed to carry weapons. Presumably, the owner has found one that does (or self-insures). I’d want the name so I could recommend them to any business owner that would otherwise be ok with licensed employees carrying on company property, but can’t because their umbrella carrier would have a fit. > > My guess is that the proprietor self-insures. Do you have a cite for that? I’ve never heard of an insurance carrier saying that their clients can’t carry guns. I’ve never seen anything about it in my business policy. Granted, I’ve never looked for it, but I’ve gone through it pretty thoroughly while looking for other things. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/154 "2014-08-05T19:26:35Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I think the OP was very unclear as to if he was describing open carry or concealed carry, I thought it was concealed, if you thought it was open carry, I’m not a fan of that in most cases because people are not used to it. > > I wonder if you all went into a nice restaurant and could see that 2 of 4 people at the next table wearing suits and with what appeared to be their wives and you could, for some reason, make out that they were carrying concealed, legally in your state we will assume. > > Would this cause you to get up & leave and never go back? Or would you ask to be allowed to go in and check for any concealed carry people before you would be able to eat in that place again? I believe that the OP was very clear that you could tell that everyone but you had a firearm i the business; both employees and customers. That clearly means that they were not concealed weapons. If I saw two well dressed guys at a table and made out there concealed weapons I would assume that they were cops or mob connected and leave them to their business. Unless the reason I saw there guns was that they were constantly “accidentally” revealing them or playing with them I still wouldn’t say anything to them, but might mention it to the management. Might even call the cops if they were drinking and making a show of their concealed weapon, there are limits to having the license isn’t there? BTW, I feel pretty safe at a gun show too. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/155 "2014-08-05T19:31:20Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I believe that the OP was very clear that you could tell that everyone but you had a firearm i the business; both employees and customers. That clearly means that they were not concealed weapons. > > If I saw two well dressed guys at a table and made out there concealed weapons I would assume that they were cops or mob connected and leave them to their business. Unless the reason I saw there guns was that they were constantly “accidentally” revealing them or playing with them I still wouldn’t say anything to them, but might mention it to the management. Might even call the cops if they were drinking and making a show of their concealed weapon, there are limits to having the license isn’t there? > > BTW, I feel pretty safe at a gun show too. People who have guns and are well dressed are either cops or in the mob? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/156 "2014-08-05T19:35:28Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I believe that the OP was very clear that you could tell that everyone but you had a firearm i the business; both employees and customers. That clearly means that they were not concealed weapons. > > . He said "_discretely armed"_. Hard to tell if that means open carry but not obvious, or concealed but not making a big deal of it. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/157 "2014-08-05T19:37:43Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > I believe that the OP was very clear that you could tell that everyone but you had a firearm i the business; both employees and customers. That clearly means that they were not concealed weapons. > > If I saw two well dressed guys at a table and made out there concealed weapons I would assume that they were cops or mob connected and leave them to their business. Unless the reason I saw there guns was that they were constantly “accidentally” revealing them or playing with them I still wouldn’t say anything to them, but might mention it to the management. Might even call the cops if they were drinking and making a show of their concealed weapon, there are limits to having the license isn’t there? > > BTW, I feel pretty safe at a gun show too. Your second statement indicates you don’t live in the USA? That is about your first sentence in the second paragraph. The rest of the paragraph does not have anything to do with what I asked unless you live in a really strange place in the USA, IMO Feel free to correct me as I can’t get a grasp of where this would be that only cops & mob guys conceal carry in restaurants. And the cops need calling??? Hummmm Yeah, guns shows are cool. ---
**Author:** ![here\_and\_there](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f07891/32.png) [@here\_and\_there](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/here_and_there)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/158 "2014-08-05T19:37:57Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Imagine that one day you walk into a random store. It might be a Walmart or a bookshop or a MacDonalds or a coffee shop or an estate agent (realtor), but not a gun store. At first, everything seems normal, but after a bit, you notice that all the staff are discreetly armed. Not just some, but all those legally allowed. There are other customers, conducting business as normal. > > What are your feelings? What are your actions? > > If you inquire: > > The staff get a small bonus for being armed and paid-for range time. You could easily change “Walmart” and “MacDonalds” with… “Police Station”. There you go… Personally… although not from the States… I would feel a lot safer in a situation, where everyone is caring a gun, compared to a situation, where only a few are allowed to carry guns.😉 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/159 "2014-08-05T19:49:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > People who have guns and are well dressed are either cops or in the mob? Sadly, the two are not mutually exclusive.☹ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856/160 "2014-08-05T19:51:30Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Those taking your business elsewhere; what if you find out that the only local competitor pays for their employees’ range time and concealed carry permit(they require employees to carry concealed)? Do you take your business to Amazon? Yes. I don’t willingly do business with corporations I consider a danger to the public, nor do I want to be around a lot of probably-amoral armed people most of whom probably hate me for my political/religious opinions. > [@DrCube](#): > > If they had a lot of fire extinguishers around, would you say to yourself “This place is a fire hazard, they must be expected to use those extinguishers frequently and I don’t trust non-firefighters to use them correctly” and leave? That pretty much screams “incredibly dangerous area”, I’d leave immediately. And avoid touching anything on the way out, I don’t want anything to blow up. > [@DrCube](#): > > Why then if the establishment prepares for the equally unlikely event of an attack does it seem unsafe? Making a point of carrying guns like that is about thuggery and intimidation, not self defense. They might decide to assault or kill me to make a political point (“Second Amendment solutions!”), or just for the kicks. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > To answer your first question, the point at which you pull out your gun is when the crook points a gun at you. In all likelihood he ‘doesn’t want any trouble’. He just wants to rob you and has no intention of shooting. Pulling out your gun and shooting him will put an end to that. Also, in the eyes of the law it ensures that you were acting in self defense. And in the real world, that’s when you die. This isn’t a Wild West movie, real world people can’t draw a gun faster than someone with a gun pointed at them can pull a trigger. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > To reply to your second question, sure, no guns would be great, but how do you propose we get there? How are you going to get the bad guys to promise to start robbing stores without them? One of my far right wing friends posted some picture on facebook the other day that I felt dirty for agreeing with (in my head), mostly just because it made sense. Something along the lines of ‘taking guns away from good guys won’t stop the bad guys from from shooting us’. Actually it does. When guns aren’t available to the general public criminals seldom have them themselves. > [@DrCube](#): > > No. For the same reason, I’m not interested in working towards a utopian world where no one dissents or expresses controversial beliefs, no matter how much safer it would be. There is no path to that utopia that does not involve tyranny. The tyranny of Second Amendment thugs & bullies with guns is still a tyranny, despite not being run by the government. > [@DrDeth](#): > > He said "_discretely armed"_. Hard to tell if that means open carry but not obvious, or concealed but not making a big deal of it. _Discretely_ armed is the opposite of being _continuously_ armed, obviously. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/americans-so-you-walk-into-a-store-and-spot-that-everyone-is-armed/694856.md?page=9)