Americans want universal health coverage

In My Humble Opinion
21

Since this is IMHO and not GD, I’ll give you my anecdotal evidence.

I live in Australia now, but I am American. We get free healthcare, plus if you make over a certain amount you are charged more taxes. You can get around this by paying for private healthcare, which bascially gives you the ability to get “elective” surgery faster and more easily, plus dental and some other stuff, but you can still get free care even with private care. Think of it as having a Cadillac instead of a tiny Ford.

When I lived in American my chosen profession made it so I was mostly contracting - hence, no employer subsidised health insurance. As has been said earlier in this thread, to purchase such insurance meant that it would cost more than my rent, and thus I simply could not afford it. As I had a pre-existing condition (asthma), I had trouble finding even affordable catastrophic care. And since I had asthma, I had to keep paying for private docs and expensive medication while I tried to find insurance, thus hurting my budget further. I got sick - pnemonia + asthma. I mostly got sick because I hit a stage of not being able to afford all my meds, so I picked and chose the bare minimum. I spent more than a week in the hospital. The bill alone was $25K US, not counting the bills for the doctors, radiology, etc. This was at a state teaching hospital. The quality of care was…not good. I had no insurance so I got to see residents and students. At the end of the day it cost me MORE money to find a better doctor who prescribed for me what I needed to get my

Living here, I have private health care, as I make a wage high enough that I need it to save money on taxes. I got sick - pulmonary embolism/DVT (a freak thing, actually, I won the genetic lottery :rolleyes: ) I spent a week in the hospital. It was a public hospital, cause that was the closest to me when I was actively dying. Nobody cared if I had private healthcare or not. The main difference between that and a private hospital is having to be on a ward vs having a private room. However, I used my private healthcare, which does not affect my premium, to offest costs to the hosptial - I have it, why not use it? After everything was said and done, I have a bill for $260 AUD and I haven’t turned that in to Medicare to see what they will pay. I have paid it, and will likely get a little bit back.

Yes, my taxes are higher, but not HUGELY higher than in the US. I went from a 28% tax bracket (from memory, its been a few years) to a 32% tax bracket. It should be pointed out that wages are, in general, higher here as well. (Well, until little Johnny’s IR laws are the death of that.) So I actually am ahead. In the same profession.

My main asthma meds are over the counter. My doctor bulk bills, so my docs vists are covered by my taxes. My prescription meds are $28AUD. Now that I have to get my blood tested often to regulate my anit-clotting medication, that is free. My dental is covered by private health care - which is $100AUD for my whole family (about $75ish USD, depending on my exchange rate.)

Universal health care, IMO, is wonderful. All the docs and nurses I talk to here can’t believe that the US doesn’t have it.

Cheers,
G

22

…medication regulated properly.

And preview is my friend… :smack:

Cheers,
G

23

Exactly. Why don’t they make it more like car insurance and less tied to your employer so that people can shop around for the coverage that best meets their needs. Why is the answer to everything “the government should do it”. This is the same government that run the public schools, the DMV, the war in Iraq and the New Orleans relief.

24

I find it disheartening that so many people assume that because they can afford health insurance, that health insurance is affordable. I’ve been without insurance since 2002. I haven’t been to the doctor since then (fortunately, I haven’t needed to, and have just forgone preventive visits). Most of the 20-somethings I know who aren’t working full time in a corporate setting are also uninsured. Paying on their own is just not an option financially.

We’re talking about people working full or part time in service industry jobs, temp jobs, and other non-salaried positions.

When someone proposes an option that won’t cost a significant portion of already strained budgets, I’d be happy to listen. Until then, a tax-funded health-care system sounds mighty fine to me.

25

PodKayne, if you have a finite period of time you’ll be needing it (which it seems you do, considering your new job in August), consider looking into short-term health coverage. You can get it from any insurance agent - we got ours a few years back from State Farm when we moved to a new state and would be without health insurance for a short time. I believe the longest you can get it for is 6 months (or it was in 2001 at State Farm). It’s quite reasonable - I think our two/three month policy was $200 or thereabouts. Like you, we were in the same position - COBRA was way too expensive, but my husband was reluctant to go without (I was willing to roll the dice for two healthy young adults). You’ll need to do some research as to underwriters and pre-existing conditions (I don’t remember the details as we didn’t need anything or have anything), but please look into it.

26

One of the reasons that it did fit my budget is that I did things many people (not saying you) are unwilling to do. I didn’t have cable television or go out to the movies in the evening or have expensive dinners at restaurants I really liked.

There are many people in this country who will say that they can’t afford to pay a doctor $60 for one or two visits a year, but will happily plunk down that same $60 for one month of cable.

27

I suspect that much of the opposition to universal health care is due to a fear that our UHC system would be just a scaled-up version of Medicare. That’s a concept that should send shivers down anyone’s spine.

Taxes are definitely a factor here. European tax rates are much higher than American taxes. I’m not saying that UHC requires a huge tax increase, but in many people’s minds, there is a strong link between the two.

Basically, UHC proponents need to overcome a lot of historical baggage to win over their opponents.

28

I have to back you up, here, catsix. Eonwe mentions that many 20-somethings have low-paying jobs and no benefits. I went online and searched for instant quotes for health insurance, using my information as if I was 25 and single. The best quote I got was a Blue Cross Blue Shield HMO for $57 a month. Now, I’m sure the benefits aren’t great, but it will at least keep you from becoming destitute if you should have a catastrophic problem. And you are right that this $57 is about the cost of cable or satellite TV. My story is similar to yours, that when I had to, I went without luxuries in order to be sure I was covered. When I was in my 20s, I worked at a job where I was paid a salary, but it wasn’t much. I was offered health insurance, but it was so expensive (due to the high average age of employees in my company) that even paying 1/2 of it was too much for me. I declined the insurance, called around to get rates, and got a pretty reasonable BCBS HMO (as I recall, it was around $75 a month, which was a lot more $$$ in 1992 than it is now). At the time, I lived in a one-room apartment, had the cheapest car I could find, no cable TV, went out only under a strict budget, ate a lot of mac & cheese, etc. I struggled financially, but I made sure I was covered. Things are easier for me now, but it is an unfair claim that people who can afford insurance and/or prefer a free-market health care system don’t know what it is like to have to struggle. Even when I was had a lot less than I do now, I never thought that universal health care was a good idea.

29

40 million uninsured Americans? Was medicade disbanded or should that read 40 million Americans without private health insurance?

If Americans wanted a government insurance program they had a funny way of proving it in 1994.

30

I just want to stop paying $520 a month for my wife and kid :frowning:

31

Snickers, thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, New York State severely restricts short-term health insurance, so any plans available to us are basically as expensive as COBRA. Sarahfeena, be aware that the availability of inexpensive coverage varies from state to state.

32

If it were just a matter of not having cable/satellite TV, going to the movies, or having expensive dinners, I wouldn’t be for universal health coverage.

But try getting private health coverage if you’re like me and Mr. Neville- we both have “pre-existing conditions”, and his requires expensive medication. I doubt a private insurer would take us on for any amount of money. Fortunately, I have health coverage through my job, but we’d be well and truly hosed if I didn’t.

And then there are scumbags like a spokesman for one major health insurance company, who says it’s fair to deny health coverage to people who take medication for mental illness, because “A lot of people are sort of recreational users of Prozac.” (Way to go- I thought it was not possible to say anything about mental illness that I would find more offensive than the whole “it’s a character flaw” thing, but this guy managed to do it). A lot of these companies are profit-driven scum, and the sooner we get them out of the business of trying to deny health care to as many Americans as they can, the better.

33

I understand this, and I wasn’t necessarily claiming that my story was applicable to all cases. I was really trying to point out that opposition to universal health care doesn’t necessarily only come from people who are sitting pretty with good coverage that is provided by their employer.

34

I should also point out that people move from less-affordable places to more-affordable places all the time. Where I live, taxes & housing costs are going up so much, there is a very good chance that we will have to move because we won’t be able to afford to live here anymore. I am hoping that this will not mean a drastic change to another city in another state, but if I have to do it, I will.

35

Fair enough. For another data point, my local BCBS plan (which is also my employer, for full disclosure), offers an individual plan with a $10,000 deductible for $240.58 per month at the moment. Not an amount to scoff at certainly.

36

That is good if you are young & healthy. I am 26 and can get an A rated program with a 2500 ded. for $40/month, which is about 1/3 what I pay for gasoline. If I were in my 40s and had a family it would be closer to $250/month for catastrophic insurance. A pre-existing condition would also make it almost impossible to afford insurance.

The problem with our current system it is rewards people who need healthcare the least and penalizes those who need it most. If you are young and healthy you get cheap, high rated care. If you have a family or a condition (ie, you need healthcare more) you get expensive, harder to get care. Many insurers wont even cover you if you have a pre-existing condition.

Plus under our current insurer system (I think DrJ has talked about this) only the uninsured pay full price for healthcare. Insurance companies use their mass buying power (I’ll give you 100,000 customers to your hospital for a 50% discount type of thing) to bargain for lower costs. So if you are healthy you pay $2000 for a hospital stay. If you are sick and can’t find affordable insurance you pay $5000 for the same hospital stay.

Our system is fundamentally flawed on virtually every level.

37

Not to sidetrack the issue, but IMHO the Clinton medical plan was health insurance of, by and for the benefit of the insurance companies. It put the middleman in charge of the system even more than they were otherwise. The medical system did and still does need fixing and the 1994 plan wouldn’t have helped matter any.

38

Thats only part of what you pay for healthcare. About 50-60% of all healthcare bills in the US are paid by taxes. So you are also paying another $4000-5000 a year in taxes for VA, medicaid, medicare, CDC, NIMH, healthcare for endless government employees and various other programs.

Sorry about your situation. I sometimes worry myself that I’ll come down with a real illness and my insurer will drop me and nobody will want to cover me anymore.

Magiver - medicaid coverage can be spotty. And 2/3 of americans still support UHC, even most republicans support it. Businesses are starting to support it too as it’ll cut down on the cost of running a business.

A great book on the subject is healthcare meltdown. It addresses virtually every argument against UHC, and does a good job of it.

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:vNL2014AI_UJ:www.uulmca.org/documents/healthcare_myths.pdf+myths+universal+health+care&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7